Return-Path: owner-judge at synchro.com Received: from srvr22.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr22.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.35]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24185 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:19:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from twins.rs.itd.umich.edu (0 at twins.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.39]) by srvr22.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23018 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:19:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root at localhost) by twins.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.6/2.5) with X.500 id KAA18859; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:19:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from uu6.psi.com (uu6.psi.com [38.145.155.3]) by twins.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.6/2.5) with SMTP id KAA18621; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:19:20 -0500 (EST) Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA29369 for spencer at umich.edu; Thu, 26 Feb 98 10:19:09 -0500 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by synchro.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA24904 for judge-digest-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:37:13 -0500 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:37:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199802261437.JAA24904 at synchro.com> From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com To: judge-digest at synchro.com Subject: judge-digest V1 #1542 Reply-To: judge at synchro.com Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com Precedence: bulk judge-digest Thursday, 26 February 1998 Volume 01 : Number 1542 ============================================================================ J u d g e N e t - t h e b e e r j u d g e d i g e s t ============================================================================ Moderator: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publisher: SynchroSystems Submissions: judge at synchro.com Subscriptions: judge-request at synchro.com Archive: http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge BJCP info: geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com ============================================================================ contents: Calif. laws Recipes etc Category Winners for 15th Annual KCBM Regional Homebrew Competition Stock Ale Style Question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ray Estrella" Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 08:38:22 -0600 Subject: Calif. laws Hello to all, Bob Denine says to, >check out how California's import >laws control how much alcoholic beverages you can bring into >the state if you drive a car, take a common carrier, or walk. The reason they have the weird regs is that everyone was going down to Tijuana, and Mexicali and bringing back very cheap Khaulua, Tequila, Corona, etc. When you can get a liter of Khaulua for five dollars across the border, it is hard to sell a 750 ml for thirteen in your local store. Now I live in Minnesota, where the Canadians have the same problem with us. Ray Estrella Cottage Grove MN ray-estrella at msn.com ****** Never Relax, Constantly Worry....have a better Homebrew ****** ------------------------------ From: Bill Giffin Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:26:17 -0500 Subject: Recipes etc Top of the morning to yea all, Brian stated: "The American Homebrewers Association's Mission Statement is: To promote awareness and appreciation of the quality and variety of beer through education, research and the collection and dissemination of information; to serve as a forum for the technological and cross-cultural aspects of the" The mission statement is a bit too broad for the purpose of a homebrew competition. Besides most competition's rules don't come in a magazine with a mission statement. I think it's important to inform the brewers as to why the competition is being held. Brian said: "As far as the AHA organizing the NHC to make money, the fact is, we don't make money on the NHC." >From the information provided as your financial statement in Zymurgy it appears that you have had a positive cash flow from running the NHC. Also you have the benefit of the recipes to print. If you didn't run the NHC your financial position would be negatively impacted. Brian said: "You also say that the purpose of the NHC is to "provide more ridiculous recipes to print in Zymurgy." Further along in the same posting, you argue "wouldn't it be helpful for the judge to have the recipe?"" Perhaps ridiculous should be replaced with inappropriate to describe the recipes in Zymurgy. The majority of the recipes published for the past five or six years have been out of style based on the recipe published. I believe that the publishing of recipes that are obviously out of style is a violation of your mission statement in that these recipes are not appropriate to educate new brewers in new styles. Having the judges see the recipe for an entry is not contradictory to stating that the winning recipes in Zymurgy are inappropriate, because when the judge has the recipe the judge then can provide more meaningful feedback for the improvement of the beer. Furthermore the winning recipes show how poorly we as judges know when a beer is .to style and when it is out of style. I am sure that the winning beers all tasted great, but that isn't important if the beers are out of style as the majority of the recipes for the winning beers indicate. Al K said: 3. many recipes are fiction... many entrants don't want to give away their recipes (although I feel that even given a recipe, most brewers have enough variation in technique and equipment that results in the beer coming out different), and 4. (MOST IMPORTANTLY) it would bias many judges against extract beers... many judges would score extract beers lower. I don't think that that many recipes given are fiction. I would much rather think well of my fellow brewers then believe that they would cheat on a competition and it is cheating! Besides very few recipes would have any value to anyone but the brewer. Al shouts "(MOST IMPORTANTLY)". Good beer is good beer, and if its made with extract great. I think it is harder to brew well with extract then it is with all grain. I don't think that it is very important at all extract or grain beer is beer. Brian said: "Let me also say that I am amazed at how much many of you slam each other. I don't want this to sound like a "Can't we all just get along" posting, but come on. You need to remember that the BJCP is an integral part of the homebrewing community. This pot-shot-taking infighting is counter-productive and greatly affects us all" Stirring the pot makes a better stew with out having it burn on the bottom. The stew can boil and improve in flavor, if it isn't stirred it will spoil I am interested in improving competitive brewing. Improving style guide lines, score sheets, and procedures can make for better competitions. What is wrong with that? Bill ------------------------------ From: John Weerts Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:41:38 -0600 Subject: Category Winners for 15th Annual KCBM Regional Homebrew Competition Here are the place finishers of the 15th Annual KCBM Regional Homebrew Competition. I will send a second message with further information. The Best of Show was won by Gregg Ferlin of BOSS for his Pilsener. There were 441 entries that were judged in 45 categories. In Brewing, John R. Weerts All Barley Wines (MCAB) Steve Piatz MhBA First Place Greg & Madeline Chaney Pint & Pummel Second Place Joe Formanek BUZZ Third Place Flanders Brown/Belgian-Style Dubbel Greg Chaney Pint & Pummel First Place Marc Gaspard KCBM Second Place Bruce Clark Derby Brew Club Third Place Belgian-Style Tripel (MCAB) Fred Hartwig First Place Peter Gilbreth Second Place Ron Lentz ZZHops Third Place Belgian-Style Dark Strong Greg Kern Rum River First Place Greg Chaney Pint & Pummel Second Place Mike Porter KCBM Third Place Belgian-Style Pale Ale/Pale Strong/Biere de Garde Gayla Sessa ZZHops First Place Dave Justice FLOPS Second Place Gayla Sessa ZZHops Third Place Belgian-Style White (Wit) David Hartwig ZZHops First Place Susan Ruud Prairie HBC Second Place Steve Ford KCBM Third Place All Belgian-Style Lambics (MCAB) and Berliner-Style Weisse Steve Piatz MhBA First Place Brian Konz Northern Light Second Place Dan Pillsbury BrewRats Third Place English-Style Light, Dark Mild and Brown Ales Bill Clark & Steve Olson Northern Ale Stars First Place Peter Gilbreth Second Place Roger & Janet Clark Derby Brew Club Third Place American-Style Brown Ale (MCAB) Robert Acosta & Pete Rodriguez Lagerythmics First Place CJ Kaiser KCBM Second Place Cory Lennon Third Place English-Style Pale Ale and India Pale Ale (MCAB IPA) Mike Porter KCBM First Place Charlie Burry Second Place Mike Porter KCBM Third Place American-Style Pale Ale (MCAB) Joe Formanek BUZZ First Place Mike Porter KCBM Second Place Mike Porter KCBM Third Place American-Style Amber Ale Fred Hartwig First Place Jim Whetsel Second Place Greg & Madeline Chaney Pint & Pummel Third Place American-Style Wheat/Lager/Premium Lager/Dark Lager Danial Turner & John R. Weerts KCBM First Place Dan Davis Derby Brew Club Second Place Clyde Hutchison Third Place English Ordinary Bitter (MCAB) Madeline Chaney Pint & Pummel First Place Doug Long Second Place George Huhtanen KCBM Third Place English-Style (Special) Best Bitter Jackie Rager & Friends KCBM First Place Rick Norton ZZHops Second Place Ed Miles Pint & Pummel Third Place English-Style (Extra Special Bitter) Strong Bitter Robert Wikstrom Derby Brew Club First Place Joe Formanek BUZZ Second Place Bill Siel Bidal Society Third Place Scottish-Style Light & Heavy Ale, Brown Porter Steve Ford KCBM First Place Peter Gilbreth Second Place Jackie Rager & Friends KCBM Third Place Scottish-Style Export Ale (MCAB) Chuck & Nancy Stiner Derby Brew Club First Place Nancy Stiner Derby Brew Club Second Place Jackie Rager & Friends KCBM Third Place Robust Porter (MCAB) Mike Porter KCBM First Place David Hartwig ZZHops Second Place Darren Underwood KCBM Third Place English-Style Old/Strong Ale Greg & Madeline Chaney Pint & Pummel First Place Jerry Black Second Place Dan Davis Derby Brew Club Third Place Strong Scotch Ale Ed Morris, Mike Fitzpatrick & Jerry Haines St Louis Brews First Place Fred Hartwig Second Place Ed Miles Pint & Pummel Third Place Classic Irish-Style Dry Stout (MCAB) Chris Kaufman Derby Brew Club First Place John Thompson Lawrence BG Second Place Kip Innes Derby Brew Club Third Place Foreign-Style and Sweet Stout Fred Hartwig First Place Jim & Judy Schaumberg St Louis Brews Second Place Peter Gilbreth Third Place Oatmeal Stout Kenneth Sessa ZZHops First Place Donald Sajda Second Place John Zelazny Upstate NY Third Place Imperial Stout / German-Style Doppelbock (MCAB) Robert Wikstrom Derby Brew Club First Place Susan Ruud Prairie HBC Second Place Greg Kern Rum River Third Place German-Style Traditional Bock / Helles Bock(Maibock) George Fix Knights of the Brown Bottle First Place Jeff Corwith Just Brew It Second Place Ed Miles Pint & Pummel Third Place Munich-Style Dunkel (MCAB) / Schwarzbier Ed Miles Pint & Pummel First Place Michael Robertson KCBM Second Place G. Huhtanen, S. Ford, T. Corcoran, D. Underwood KCBM Third Place Golden Ale (Canadian-Style Ale) / Munich-Style Helles (MCAB) / Dortmunder/European-Style Ron Brooks St Louis Brews First Place Danial Turner & John R. Weerts KCBM Second Place Danial Turner & John R. Weerts KCBM Third Place German-Style / Bohemian-Style Pilsener Gregg Ferlin BOSS First Place Dan Pillsbury BrewRats Second Place Ron Lentz ZZHops Third Place American-Style Pilsener (MCAB) Jackie Rager & Friends KCBM First Place George Fix Kinghts of the Brown Bottle Second Place Dan Davis Derby Brew Club Third Place American Lager/Ale (Cream Ale) / German-Style Kolsch/Koln-Style Kip Innes Derby Brew Club First Place Danial Turner & John R. Weerts KCBM Second Place Lawrence D Mayden ZZHops Third Place Vienna / Marzen/Oktoberfest (MCAB) Mike Porter KCBM First Place Leo Vitt & Bill Van Vugt Minnesota Timberworts Second Place Roger Whyman The Unfermentables Third Place Dusseldorf-Style Altbier (MCAB) Andrew Kramer First Place Leo Vitt Minnesota Timberworts Second Place Peter Clouston Lawrence BG Third Place German-Style Hefeweizen/Hefeweiss (MCAB) Ed Morris, Mike Fitzpatrick & Jerry Haines St Louis Brews First Place Russell Johnson Urban Knaves of Grain Second Place Eric Stump Third Place German-Style Dunkelweizen / Weizenbock Leo Vitt & Bill Van Vugt Minnesota Timberworts First Place Ed Morris, Mike Fitzpatrick & Jerry Haines St Louis Brews Second Place John Griffiths FLOPS Third Place All Smoke Beers George Huhtanen KCBM First Place Pete Ira Second Place John Zelazny Upstate NY Third Place Fruit and Vegetable Beer Pete Spratlin First Place Ron Lentz ZZHops Second Place Richard Entz Third Place Classic-Style Fruit and Vegetable Beer / Classic-Style Herb and Spice Steve Ford KCBM First Place Marc Gaspard KCBM Second Place Rob Clucas KCBM Third Place Herb and Spice Beer Danial Turner & John R. Weerts KCBM First Place Jackie Rager & Friends KCBM Second Place Peter Clouston Lawrence BG Third Place All Specialty Beers Jackie Rager & Friends KCBM First Place Kenneth Butler KCBM Second Place Arthur Steinhoff King Gambrinus Third Place California Common Beer George Huhtanen KCBM First Place George Huhtanen KCBM Second Place Fred Hartwig Third Place Traditional Meads / Sparkling Braggot Steve Piatz MhBA First Place Ed Newlin ZZHops Second Place Susan Ruud Prairie HBC Third Place Melomels / Still Pyment Dan Davis Derby Brew Club First Place Doug John Pints O' Plenty Second Place Bill Siel Bidal Society Third Place Still Cyser / Sparkling Pyment / Metheglins Dan Davis Derby Brew Club First Place Steve Piatz MhBA Second Place Jim Connors King Gambrinus Third Place All Ciders Rodric McBride KCBM First Place John Thompson Lawrence BG Second Place Jim Connors King Gambrinus Third Place ------------------------------ From: scott at giseis.alaska.edu (Scott Stihler (AVO Analyst)) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:21:43 -0900 Subject: Stock Ale Style Question Randy Erickson wrote: >> Any ieda what style to enter a Stock Ale under? - ---------------------- Well, here are my two cents worth. I'd enter a Stock Ale in the Old/Strong Ale category. One account of the developement of Stock Ale has it that this beers were brewed during the winter months and were aged until summer at which time they were blended with newly fermented ("green") beer. Because of the increased risk of contamination of summer brews the development of off-flavors often resulted in such beers quickly becoming undrinkable before they had been properly aged. By blending these beers with Stock Ales the one could essentially speed up the aging process. Thus allowing the beer to be consumed before excessive off-flavors developed. With the arrival of the cool autumn weather the practice of blending was no longer necessary. The left over blending beer was sold was Old Age. Old Ale is therefore, simply well aged Stock Ale. I believe the above account is from Ray Daniels' "Designing Great Beers." Note that several other accounts regarding the developement of Stock and Old Ales exist so the one above is by no means the only possible explanation. This is another case of if it isn't true it ought to be. At any rate, most of the the above account lends itself well as an answer to your question regarding what style to enter your Stock Ale as. The other accounts are a bit more problematic in this regard. Entering a Stock Ale in the Old Ale category would be a good first guess. Well, there you've had it. I've rambled enough on this subject. Cheers, Scott ------------------------------ End of judge-digest V1 #1542 **************************** Send subscription cancellations & changes to judge-request at synchro.com. Messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored.