Return-Path: owner-judge at synchro.com Received: from srvr22.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr22.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.35]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23569 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:17:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from stayhungry.rs.itd.umich.edu (0 at stayhungry.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.42]) by srvr22.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17717 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:17:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root at localhost) by stayhungry.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.5) with X.500 id IAA11035; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:11:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from uu6.psi.com (uu6.psi.com [38.145.155.3]) by stayhungry.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.5) with SMTP id IAA11010; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:11:21 -0500 (EST) Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA22674 for spencer at umich.edu; Wed, 11 Feb 98 08:17:13 -0500 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by synchro.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA19905 for judge-digest-outgoing; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:56:39 -0500 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:56:39 -0500 Message-Id: <199802111256.HAA19905 at synchro.com> From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com To: judge-digest at synchro.com Subject: judge-digest V1 #1535 Reply-To: judge at synchro.com Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com Precedence: bulk judge-digest Wednesday, 11 February 1998 Volume 01 : Number 1535 ============================================================================ J u d g e N e t - t h e b e e r j u d g e d i g e s t ============================================================================ Moderator: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publisher: SynchroSystems Submissions: judge at synchro.com Subscriptions: judge-request at synchro.com Archive: http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge BJCP info: geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com ============================================================================ contents: Re: judge-digest V1 #1534 Call for judges Re: C on my scoresheet Re: judge-digest V1 #1534[4~[4~ Re: Judging Process Questions NY city spring Regional Competition ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dennis Davison Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 20:36:20 -0600 Subject: Re: judge-digest V1 #1534 John Carlson writes: > I am running a homebrew competition this Saturday that is AHA sanctioned. > Last year I sanctioned with AHA and registered with the BJCP to support > both organizations. > > This year I decided to go only with AHA since $20 of the $40 fee goes > directly to the BJCP to provide me with a judge list and to record > experience points. Why is my competion not listed on the BJCP calendar on > the BJCP web page? Is this too much to ask for the $20 that the BJCP is > getting? John, the major reason is that it is not registered with the BJCP. You are santioned through the AHA. Yes, the BJCP receives $20 of that money you send to Boulder, but that covers our expenses for the mailing list you get along with recording experience points. It also covers any other phone calls we may need to make to remind people to get there info into to us, especially calls to Boulder for follow-ups. Yes, it may be a little nit picky, to say you need to spend the extra bucks through the BJCP to get it up on our Web Page, but the question is, who do you want to support? When you get down to the bottom line, how many entries do you think you'll get solely because of a listing on the internet? Most entries are local people from the local clubs. 5% may come from around the country, and of those a listing on the net may only bring 1%. The other 4% are from people that entered the previous year, or from word of mouth. I'm not be-littling the use of the net, or the listings competitions have, but until it's proven that an internet listing will give any competition 25% of it's entries, I think this question and concern is mute. The BJCP offers it as a courtesy to registered competitions with the BJCP. - -- Dennis Davison mailto:ddavison at execpc.com BJCP Representative for the Midwest BJCP President http://www.bjcp.org ------------------------------ From: "Reed,Randy" Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:38:37 -0500 Subject: Call for judges JUDGES Just a quick reminder: The South Shore Brew Club will hold its third annual BJCP registered South Shore Brewoff on March 28th in Cranston RI. We expect more entries than last year due to our arrangement of additional drop off points. If you are interested in judging this event, please contact Stephen Rose (508-821-4152) to register. Only those registered in advance will be allowed entry, receive a gift, and great food at the comfortable restaurant Chardonnay's. If you wish to enter your beers, the deadline is March 21st. for more information, point your browser to http://members.aol.com/brewclub The goal of the competition is to provide quality feedback to amateur brewers and raise our club's understanding of beer styles. Hope to see you there! Randy ------------------------------ From: Bill Giffin Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:03:48 -0500 Subject: Re: C on my scoresheet Top of the morning to yea all, >It's typical that among several fairly positive reviews about >making examples of scoresheets available, Bill Giffin has to >make a personal attack. Note that the beers were judged against the >style guidelines. The appropriate one for an English pale ale is >(1998 AHA): I was positive about having examples of a score sheet made available; I just thought the example was poor. Is it a personal attack to criticize a score sheet? My, my Scott, poor fellow. Why in the world are we using the 1998 AHA guidelines? Not very good. The problem I had with the score sheet that Scott presented was it was not clear what were flaws and what were not. Must we describe everything about the beer? Must we fill up all the available space on the score sheet? I don't think so! When almost all-brewing flaws have many causes should we try to provide advice on how to correct the problems? I don't think we can. Is it possible to have a great score sheet with only one word on the sheet? I think so provided that word is PERFECT and the score is 50. If that is the case how many words have to be on the score sheet to give a score of 47? If it is my beer give me 45 and above and you don't have to write anything on the score sheet, I will know what you think of the beer. Dave wanted to see one of my score sheets. They don't look all that much different then the ones provided in the example except that I try to tell the brewer if a comment is good or bad. We need to have standards for our judging. Judges have to be evaluated on a continuing basis to assure the quality of the judging. I have entered a lot of beers into competitions and won a lot of ribbons, yet most of the score sheets I got back were barely useful for starting a fire in the stove. We can do better and we need to do better. Bill ------------------------------ From: Michael Rasmussen Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:00:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: judge-digest V1 #1534[4~[4~ Doug A. Mccullough asks about judging Bavarian Weizen. The AHA style guidelines don't currently make a distinction between Crystal and Hefe- Weizens saying only "Cloudiness is OK". The BJCP guidelines are similar. Their only statement on the subject is "The Hefeweizen version contains suspended yeast." (Hmmm, I though there was suspended yeast in everything unfiltered, and the cloudiness came from proteins. Time to research.) This means for clarity anything in the range from brilliant to cloudy is OK and should be given full credit. If at some point the distinction is present, as in having seperate catagories then the beer can be judged against those standards. There's currently no need to make the distinction. Doug also asked about a Raspberry Imperial Stout. The AHA Guidelines have "Fruit and Vegetable Beer" (style 21a) as a seperate sub-catagory from "Classic-Style Fruit and Vegetable Beer" (style 21b). The BJCP guidelines only list "Fruit Beer" but specify in the description that "Brewer should specify the style of beer and the type of fruit used." So, it seems that you correctly downgraded the entrant for not having a Imperial stout. Hopefully you provided the brewer lots of very positive feedback about a great beer that had been miscategorized. >From that s/he could learn that the beer was great, but an Imperial stout it was not. And John DeCarlo muses about feedback to the judge... right down to offering to pay brewers a buck for a copy of the scoresheet and their comments on its usefulness. Our club has monthly style competitions. Last year I judged 8 or 9 times. And maybe in the course of the year 3 people approached me about my comments. It was a great experience every time. Especially the two that were pissed off because they hadn't scored well. In one case I was off the mark about an aroma that I misidentified. In another, the beer truely wasn't as good as the brewer thought, and we both learned about taste and the description of taste. In AHA competitions I always put my email address on the forms, usually the comment is "Feedback? contact mikeraz at barley.patch.com" This has drawn a couple of comments, again very instructive ones. I too would like to see more. Perhaps we could have judges review each others sheets during a flight and supply immediate feedback. But that will bring other problems to the table. - -- Michael Rasmussen mikeraz at patch.com Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity Better a brewer than a banker be. ------------------------------ From: hollen at vigra.com Date: 10 Feb 1998 07:28:50 -0800 Subject: Re: Judging Process Questions >> Doug A Mccullough writes: DM> Question 1: When handing over a beer in the Fruit Beer or the DM> Herb/Spice/Veggie Beer categories, should the steward tell the DM> judges nothing more than the category or should the judges be DM> given additional information such as the ingredients, whether it DM> is a variation on a classic style and what the brewer named the DM> batch? How do the Guidelines address this matter? If it was entered as a classic style, the judges should be told both the classic style and the special ingredients/processes. If you have a raspberry Imperial stout, then it should 1) be true to the Imperial stout guidelines and 2) have discernible raspberry flavor/aroma that is in balance with the character of the stout. IMHO, the name of the beer is superfluous and even could constitute unfairness because it just might identify the brewer to the judges. If the beer was not entered as a classic style subcategory, then all the judges should hear is the special ingredients/processes. dion Judge Coordinator 1998 America's Finest City Homebrew Competition Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity, Sponsor http://www.softbrew.com/afchbc - --- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California ------------------------------ From: kbjohns at peakaccess.net Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:07:23 -0500 Subject: NY city spring Regional Competition On March Sunday, March 22 HOSI will sponsor the 7th ann Spring Regional Homebrew Comp. BOS prize is a 10 gal SS brew kettle with drain and thermometer (or credit toward a larger kettle)from PBS. Well over a thousand dollars in other prizes have been lined up. Complete information, entry forms & judge forms can be found on the clubs homepage URL http://www.wp.com/hosi/ or by email. Ken Homebrewers of Staten Island URL http://www.wp.com/hosi/ ------------------------------ End of judge-digest V1 #1535 **************************** Send subscription cancellations & changes to judge-request at synchro.com. Messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored.