Return-Path: judge-owner at synchro.com Received: from srvr22.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr22.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.35]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA08686 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:04:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.144.90]) by srvr22.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA04966 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:04:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 8/29/98 - 8/30/98 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:01:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC49111EAE2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 --Next_Part_SYNC49111EAE2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ Re: BOS beers (Btalk at aol.com) Re: Digest for the period 8/28/98 - 8/28/98 (KEITHBREW at aol.com) --Next_Part_SYNC49111EAE2 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.0.997) id SYNC48971DE75; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:04:27 -0400 Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by deliverance.harvard.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA11440 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:01:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Btalk at aol.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Received: from Btalk at aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.3) id HFPQa15097 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8f946a63.35e94d1a at aol.com>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:01:14 EDT To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: BOS beers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 X-UIDL: 090448214011443 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Greg writes > What we've done in the past is to take only the beers with > the highest scores, and allow them to move to the BOS round. This makes it simple, ...why even bother with BOS judging if you already 'know' by score which beers won't make it. Just pick the highest score and evacuate the site real early! My guess is that you could consolidate some categories. I've seen it done in much larger contests than yours, ie BURP's Spirit of Free Beer with 400+ entries. If I recall correctly, there were 17 categories in the BOS. The idea of a secret vote for the top 5 or so is an interesting idea, though it would take away the fun of haggling to get to that point. OTOH, I've seen beers that were recommended to be tossed early on and argued to be kept/set aside, actually go on to be in the top 3 or close. SOmetimes the discussions raise issues that will affect how a judge considers a particular beer. Regards, Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY --Next_Part_SYNC49111EAE2 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.0.997) id SYNC49071E89F; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:33:43 -0400 Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by deliverance.harvard.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA04707 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:32:16 -0400 (EDT) From: KEITHBREW at aol.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Received: from KEITHBREW at aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.3) id HUKNa20922 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6c75d8f1.35e9e0e5 at aol.com>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:31:49 EDT To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 8/28/98 - 8/28/98 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 X-UIDL: 090451993804711 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Greg Lorton wrote about the difficulties of judging a huge number of beers in a best of show round and how to go about selecting judges for the best of show round. With regards to the first problem, when I judged the Best of Show at the AHA Nationals in Milwaukee, we resolved the problem by splitting the the 4 BOS judges into 2 panels. We carefully poured no more than half the bottle to split between the pair of judges. Each pair culled the top 3-5 from their half and then we judged those as a group of four judges to pick the winner and runners-up. The judges must move quickly or some of the beers will suffer by the time the other side gets to taste. This is the best solution I know. I would hate to pick only the highest scoring winners for inclusion. Hard-assed judges shouldn't be allowed to keep winning beers from being considered any more than candy-assed judges should get lesser beers through. With regards to picking the best of show panel allow me to discuss what is typically done in the northeast at our series of 5-6 competitions. The organizer typically pulls judges from three or four pools at random! One pool is usually judges from the local/host club/clubs. Another group is typically the other judges from the state (if it is a large enough pool) Out of state for the third. The fourth judge is often at the discretion of the organizer -- someone who traveled particularly far or someone who helped a lot behind the scenes or a local celebrity (local commecial brewer, beer writer, etc) I really prefer the method of randomly picking from the qualified judges ("qualified" can be determined by the organizer, but it should certainly extend to Certified judges and higher.) This allows new blood in the ranks of quality judges -- everybody has to do their first best of show somewhere :-) Hope this helps. Keith A. Symonds, Master Judge Brewmaster -- Ark Restaurants, Southfield, Michigan --Next_Part_SYNC49111EAE2-- Return-Path: judge-owner at synchro.com Received: from srvr22.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr22.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.35]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA08686 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:04:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.144.90]) by srvr22.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA04966 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:04:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 8/29/98 - 8/30/98 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:01:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="Next_Part_SYNC49111EAE2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 --Next_Part_SYNC49111EAE2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ Re: BOS beers (Btalk at aol.com) Re: Digest for the period 8/28/98 - 8/28/98 (KEITHBREW at aol.com) --Next_Part_SYNC49111EAE2 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.0.997) id SYNC48971DE75; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:04:27 -0400 Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by deliverance.harvard.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA11440 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:01:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Btalk at aol.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Received: from Btalk at aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.3) id HFPQa15097 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8f946a63.35e94d1a at aol.com>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:01:14 EDT To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: BOS beers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 X-UIDL: 090448214011443 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Greg writes > What we've done in the past is to take only the beers with > the highest scores, and allow them to move to the BOS round. This makes it simple, ...why even bother with BOS judging if you already 'know' by score which beers won't make it. Just pick the highest score and evacuate the site real early! My guess is that you could consolidate some categories. I've seen it done in much larger contests than yours, ie BURP's Spirit of Free Beer with 400+ entries. If I recall correctly, there were 17 categories in the BOS. The idea of a secret vote for the top 5 or so is an interesting idea, though it would take away the fun of haggling to get to that point. OTOH, I've seen beers that were recommended to be tossed early on and argued to be kept/set aside, actually go on to be in the top 3 or close. SOmetimes the discussions raise issues that will affect how a judge considers a particular beer. Regards, Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY --Next_Part_SYNC49111EAE2 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.harvard.net by synchro.com with POP3 (Mailtraq/1.0.0.997) id SYNC49071E89F; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:33:43 -0400 Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by deliverance.harvard.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA04707 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:32:16 -0400 (EDT) From: KEITHBREW at aol.com Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Errors-To: judge-owner at synchro.com Sender: judge at synchro.com Received: from KEITHBREW at aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.3) id HUKNa20922 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6c75d8f1.35e9e0e5 at aol.com>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:31:49 EDT To: JudgeNet - the beer judge digest Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 8/28/98 - 8/28/98 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 X-UIDL: 090451993804711 X-Hops: 3 X-POST-MessageClass: 10; Mailing List Message Greg Lorton wrote about the difficulties of judging a huge number of beers in a best of show round and how to go about selecting judges for the best of show round. With regards to the first problem, when I judged the Best of Show at the AHA Nationals in Milwaukee, we resolved the problem by splitting the the 4 BOS judges into 2 panels. We carefully poured no more than half the bottle to split between the pair of judges. Each pair culled the top 3-5 from their half and then we judged those as a group of four judges to pick the winner and runners-up. The judges must move quickly or some of the beers will suffer by the time the other side gets to taste. This is the best solution I know. I would hate to pick only the highest scoring winners for inclusion. Hard-assed judges shouldn't be allowed to keep winning beers from being considered any more than candy-assed judges should get lesser beers through. With regards to picking the best of show panel allow me to discuss what is typically done in the northeast at our series of 5-6 competitions. The organizer typically pulls judges from three or four pools at random! One pool is usually judges from the local/host club/clubs. Another group is typically the other judges from the state (if it is a large enough pool) Out of state for the third. The fourth judge is often at the discretion of the organizer -- someone who traveled particularly far or someone who helped a lot behind the scenes or a local celebrity (local commecial brewer, beer writer, etc) I really prefer the method of randomly picking from the qualified judges ("qualified" can be determined by the organizer, but it should certainly extend to Certified judges and higher.) This allows new blood in the ranks of quality judges -- everybody has to do their first best of show somewhere :-) Hope this helps. Keith A. Symonds, Master Judge Brewmaster -- Ark Restaurants, Southfield, Michigan --Next_Part_SYNC49111EAE2--