Return-Path: judge-owner at synchro.com Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.26]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA01813 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:04:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.144.90]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA24761 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:04:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 8/15/98 - 8/16/98 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:00:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ Re: Digest for the period 8/13/98 - 8/14/98 (OudBruin at aol.com) Re: Certifiable judges and maintaning interest in homebrewing (Dennis Davison) Re: Certifiable judges and maintaning interest in homebrewin (JEFFREY.C.SPARROW at monsanto.com) -------------------------------------------------------- From: OudBruin at aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:04:51 EDT Subject: Re: Digest for the period 8/13/98 - 8/14/98 Re: Mark Johnston from (oudbruin at aol.com) I would like add a few words about Mark, He was a person of clear vision with a desire to help everyone he came in contact with. Mark did not hesitate to speak the truth even if it was not very P.C., at the time. Mark's abiding interest and hopes to rekindle the excitement of late 80's and early 90's was an inspiration. Mark, where ever you are, you will be missed and the Brewing Community of the Delaware Valley is diminished by your death. "farther along we'll know more about it... "farther along we'll understand why.."" old folk hymn -------------------------------------------------------- From: Dennis Davison Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:08:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Certifiable judges and maintaning interest in homebrewing George writes: > Jeff laments his competition's ability to attract an adequate number > of judges, writing, > (snip) > Seriously, it is not true that interest in homebrew contests (and > homebrewing) is waning everywhere. Here in the NY City area we have > more judges than ever before, with classes going on to improve judging > skills. People are quite enthusiastic. George, Jeff didn't really give the full details. Yes, it's hard in the Greater Chicago area to attract judges, but the major reason is that the greater Chicago area has at least a dozen competitions a year. You now add a reasonable driving distance of 2 hours and you can double the number to 24 competitions in a year. So the several hundred judges in the area get spread thin, then add a dozen beer festivals or other beer related events and there is only so much people can do for there hobby, especially if they are married with children. > I think a great way to improve judging skills would be for the BJCP to > sponsor Advanced Sensory workshops like the one we are about to have. > Beer spiking kits containing 12-14 chemicals can be obtained for less > than $250. The BJCP can purchase a number of these kits (perhaps > they'd be cheaper being sold in bulk to a nonprofit group) and > distribute them to members in various geographic locations who could > then hold classes for area beer geeks. These classes need not be > limited to BJCP types. I have found that a great way to build > interest in the BJCP (and homebrewing) is to invite "outsiders" to the > classes. .> > The class we are about to start will be like "Dr. Beer" on steroids. > It will be ~6 weekly sessions and we will do threshold testing, learn > about various types of taste panels, etc. It's something every BJCP > judge should have to do. In fact, I think that the people completing > this class should earn a judging point or two. I agree classes on sensory evaluation are needed. The big but comes in your next statement. > Classes like this would not involve more testing or much more > paperwork. The BJCP has plenty of cash in the kitty, so what's > stopping us? Remember: the more people there are that appreciate > good beer, the more good beer there will be for all of us to choose > from! The key is education. The board has discussed this a couple of times over the past three years. Our major concern is liability and insurance we would have to carry to produce a program like this. Some of the phenols used for aromatics, are not healthy to humans if consumed. If someone were to consume this concoction, we'd be liable. That's what scares us more than anything else. Most people are responsible, but when someone spills a hot cup of coffee that they placed between there legs from McDonalds, sues, and wins millions, this scares me. People today are sue happy, I don't think our members are but one never knows. -- Dennis Davison mailto:ddavison at execpc.com BJCP Representative for the Midwest BJCP President http://www.bjcp.org -------------------------------------------------------- From: JEFFREY.C.SPARROW at monsanto.com Date: 14 Aug 1998 15:17:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Certifiable judges and maintaning interest in homebrewin What the hell you mean about locking people up in psychiatric hospitals I have no idea? But, I digress... Like I said, I was commenting on the greater Chicagoland/northern Wisconsin area. In fact, I'm not lamenting the competition I recently organized. This year set records in virtually every way. But at just about every competition I judge at the organizers have to nearly plead for judges. I'm happy to hear that is not the case in your area! And your suggestions are exactly the sort we need. Note, also, I'm not commenting on a lack of interest in homebrewing but a lack of interest in qualified judges coming out to competitions. We certainly have enough but we never see many of them. It it is not simply how do we attract new ones but how do we motivate the ones we have? It is not right to say that every person interested in homebrewing SHOULD be interested in entering or judging competitions. Many of my friends outside a club, even those who brew, have little or no interest in learning about beer to the level you speak or to enter competitions. And, yes, they've tried it. Let's not confuse an interest in beer with the level to which we have chosen to take it. ~jcs ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Certifiable judges and maintaning interest in homebrewing Author: George_De_Piro at berlex.com at INTERNET Date: 8/14/98 2:37 PM Hi all, Jeff laments his competition's ability to attract an adequate number of judges, writing, "...trying to get enough judges, particularly commited (sic) before the competition..." Well, heck, Jeff, maybe more judges would be available for your contest if you weren't so busy locking them up in psychiatric hospitals! Sort of gives new meaning to the rank "Certifiable" (um, I mean "Certified"). Seriously, it is not true that interest in homebrew contests (and homebrewing) is waning everywhere. Here in the NY City area we have more judges than ever before, with classes going on to improve judging skills. People are quite enthusiastic. It takes *effort* to maintain this level of excitement. My club works hard to keep the membership entertained (we have to compete with the social possibilities of NY City; that's no small opponent!). We have found that educational programs like 10 week BJCP prep classes and the soon-to-start Advanced Sensory Perception Workshop are well received by club members and local beer geeks (some of which have joined both the club and the BJCP after attending the classes). I think the BJCP needs to start doing some of this stuff in a more formal way if it is to fulfill its mission statement and remain a vibrant organization. The BJCP is *lucky* to have a homebrew club in NYC that is so enthusiastic about educating the masses. It can't count on individuals or clubs forever, though. The BJCP needs to start doing this stuff for itself. I think a great way to improve judging skills would be for the BJCP to sponsor Advanced Sensory workshops like the one we are about to have. Beer spiking kits containing 12-14 chemicals can be obtained for less than $250. The BJCP can purchase a number of these kits (perhaps they'd be cheaper being sold in bulk to a nonprofit group) and distribute them to members in various geographic locations who could then hold classes for area beer geeks. These classes need not be limited to BJCP types. I have found that a great way to build interest in the BJCP (and homebrewing) is to invite "outsiders" to the classes. The class we are about to start will be like "Dr. Beer" on steroids. It will be ~6 weekly sessions and we will do threshold testing, learn about various types of taste panels, etc. It's something every BJCP judge should have to do. In fact, I think that the people completing this class should earn a judging point or two. Classes like this would not involve more testing or much more paperwork. The BJCP has plenty of cash in the kitty, so what's stopping us? Remember: the more people there are that appreciate good beer, the more good beer there will be for all of us to choose from! The key is education. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return-Path: judge-owner at synchro.com Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.26]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA01813 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:04:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.144.90]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA24761 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:04:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 8/15/98 - 8/16/98 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:00:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ Re: Digest for the period 8/13/98 - 8/14/98 (OudBruin at aol.com) Re: Certifiable judges and maintaning interest in homebrewing (Dennis Davison) Re: Certifiable judges and maintaning interest in homebrewin (JEFFREY.C.SPARROW at monsanto.com) -------------------------------------------------------- From: OudBruin at aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:04:51 EDT Subject: Re: Digest for the period 8/13/98 - 8/14/98 Re: Mark Johnston from (oudbruin at aol.com) I would like add a few words about Mark, He was a person of clear vision with a desire to help everyone he came in contact with. Mark did not hesitate to speak the truth even if it was not very P.C., at the time. Mark's abiding interest and hopes to rekindle the excitement of late 80's and early 90's was an inspiration. Mark, where ever you are, you will be missed and the Brewing Community of the Delaware Valley is diminished by your death. "farther along we'll know more about it... "farther along we'll understand why.."" old folk hymn -------------------------------------------------------- From: Dennis Davison Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:08:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Certifiable judges and maintaning interest in homebrewing George writes: > Jeff laments his competition's ability to attract an adequate number > of judges, writing, > (snip) > Seriously, it is not true that interest in homebrew contests (and > homebrewing) is waning everywhere. Here in the NY City area we have > more judges than ever before, with classes going on to improve judging > skills. People are quite enthusiastic. George, Jeff didn't really give the full details. Yes, it's hard in the Greater Chicago area to attract judges, but the major reason is that the greater Chicago area has at least a dozen competitions a year. You now add a reasonable driving distance of 2 hours and you can double the number to 24 competitions in a year. So the several hundred judges in the area get spread thin, then add a dozen beer festivals or other beer related events and there is only so much people can do for there hobby, especially if they are married with children. > I think a great way to improve judging skills would be for the BJCP to > sponsor Advanced Sensory workshops like the one we are about to have. > Beer spiking kits containing 12-14 chemicals can be obtained for less > than $250. The BJCP can purchase a number of these kits (perhaps > they'd be cheaper being sold in bulk to a nonprofit group) and > distribute them to members in various geographic locations who could > then hold classes for area beer geeks. These classes need not be > limited to BJCP types. I have found that a great way to build > interest in the BJCP (and homebrewing) is to invite "outsiders" to the > classes. .> > The class we are about to start will be like "Dr. Beer" on steroids. > It will be ~6 weekly sessions and we will do threshold testing, learn > about various types of taste panels, etc. It's something every BJCP > judge should have to do. In fact, I think that the people completing > this class should earn a judging point or two. I agree classes on sensory evaluation are needed. The big but comes in your next statement. > Classes like this would not involve more testing or much more > paperwork. The BJCP has plenty of cash in the kitty, so what's > stopping us? Remember: the more people there are that appreciate > good beer, the more good beer there will be for all of us to choose > from! The key is education. The board has discussed this a couple of times over the past three years. Our major concern is liability and insurance we would have to carry to produce a program like this. Some of the phenols used for aromatics, are not healthy to humans if consumed. If someone were to consume this concoction, we'd be liable. That's what scares us more than anything else. Most people are responsible, but when someone spills a hot cup of coffee that they placed between there legs from McDonalds, sues, and wins millions, this scares me. People today are sue happy, I don't think our members are but one never knows. -- Dennis Davison mailto:ddavison at execpc.com BJCP Representative for the Midwest BJCP President http://www.bjcp.org -------------------------------------------------------- From: JEFFREY.C.SPARROW at monsanto.com Date: 14 Aug 1998 15:17:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Certifiable judges and maintaning interest in homebrewin What the hell you mean about locking people up in psychiatric hospitals I have no idea? But, I digress... Like I said, I was commenting on the greater Chicagoland/northern Wisconsin area. In fact, I'm not lamenting the competition I recently organized. This year set records in virtually every way. But at just about every competition I judge at the organizers have to nearly plead for judges. I'm happy to hear that is not the case in your area! And your suggestions are exactly the sort we need. Note, also, I'm not commenting on a lack of interest in homebrewing but a lack of interest in qualified judges coming out to competitions. We certainly have enough but we never see many of them. It it is not simply how do we attract new ones but how do we motivate the ones we have? It is not right to say that every person interested in homebrewing SHOULD be interested in entering or judging competitions. Many of my friends outside a club, even those who brew, have little or no interest in learning about beer to the level you speak or to enter competitions. And, yes, they've tried it. Let's not confuse an interest in beer with the level to which we have chosen to take it. ~jcs ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Certifiable judges and maintaning interest in homebrewing Author: George_De_Piro at berlex.com at INTERNET Date: 8/14/98 2:37 PM Hi all, Jeff laments his competition's ability to attract an adequate number of judges, writing, "...trying to get enough judges, particularly commited (sic) before the competition..." Well, heck, Jeff, maybe more judges would be available for your contest if you weren't so busy locking them up in psychiatric hospitals! Sort of gives new meaning to the rank "Certifiable" (um, I mean "Certified"). Seriously, it is not true that interest in homebrew contests (and homebrewing) is waning everywhere. Here in the NY City area we have more judges than ever before, with classes going on to improve judging skills. People are quite enthusiastic. It takes *effort* to maintain this level of excitement. My club works hard to keep the membership entertained (we have to compete with the social possibilities of NY City; that's no small opponent!). We have found that educational programs like 10 week BJCP prep classes and the soon-to-start Advanced Sensory Perception Workshop are well received by club members and local beer geeks (some of which have joined both the club and the BJCP after attending the classes). I think the BJCP needs to start doing some of this stuff in a more formal way if it is to fulfill its mission statement and remain a vibrant organization. The BJCP is *lucky* to have a homebrew club in NYC that is so enthusiastic about educating the masses. It can't count on individuals or clubs forever, though. The BJCP needs to start doing this stuff for itself. I think a great way to improve judging skills would be for the BJCP to sponsor Advanced Sensory workshops like the one we are about to have. Beer spiking kits containing 12-14 chemicals can be obtained for less than $250. The BJCP can purchase a number of these kits (perhaps they'd be cheaper being sold in bulk to a nonprofit group) and distribute them to members in various geographic locations who could then hold classes for area beer geeks. These classes need not be limited to BJCP types. I have found that a great way to build interest in the BJCP (and homebrewing) is to invite "outsiders" to the classes. The class we are about to start will be like "Dr. Beer" on steroids. It will be ~6 weekly sessions and we will do threshold testing, learn about various types of taste panels, etc. It's something every BJCP judge should have to do. In fact, I think that the people completing this class should earn a judging point or two. Classes like this would not involve more testing or much more paperwork. The BJCP has plenty of cash in the kitty, so what's stopping us? Remember: the more people there are that appreciate good beer, the more good beer there will be for all of us to choose from! The key is education. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY)