Return-Path: judge-owner at synchro.com Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.26]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA07221 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.144.90]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA12656 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:25:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 7/28/98 - 7/29/98 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:03:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ Re: Jeff Kenton's Judge Questions (Gregory A. Lorton) -------------------------------------------------------- From: Gregory A. Lorton Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:05:45 -0700 Subject: Re: Jeff Kenton's Judge Questions Jeff Kenton writes > > Howdy. I just wanted to ask a couple of questions about judge topics. I am > not yet a judge, but feel I should know a few things before I jump into the > ring. > > Specifically, I want to know if it is required for judges to know EVERY > style. I know the particulars on quite a few styles, but if judges are > assigned randomly to panels, I might not be able to do a good job on > certain panels. That is, I don't know the particulars for every style, and > if I were assigned to a panel like Weisse, I would just be guessing. > In reviewing several style guidelines, I have seen that nearly every > governing body recognizes beer styles slightly differently. To keep all of > these guidelines straight in my mind concurrently would be a herculean > effort. (If it really is required, I might have to forget some other > important facts, like my name, address, telephone number, etc.) Wouldn't it > be appropriate to have a crib sheet on the table that outlined the > specifics of the style, such as flavor faults, required taste components, > color range, etc.? Maybe this is a little sacrilegious (private flames accepted at glorton at cts.com), but as a beginning judge, you don't need to have all of the styles memorized. But you should be able to read the guidelines before you begin judging so you know what to look for. And you have to be able to translate what the guidelines say into the perceptions that you will see (taste, smell, feel, and hear) in the beers. It never hurts to bring along a copy of the style guidelines, just in case the competition organizers don't provide them. Also, hopefully you'd be judging with someone with experience in the style. But while I've said that you probably don't need to know all of the styles to judge, you probably do need to know all of the styles to do well on the BJCP exam. You don't know what styles you'll be asked to describe on the exam, so the more you know, the better your chances. On an exam that I proctored (administered?) in May, the test-takers had to describe the characteristics of 13 identified substyles, plus identify and describe the characteristics of major beer styles from Edinburgh, Berlin, and Bamberg. Judges shouldn't be randomly assigned to panels. The organizer and/or judge coordinator for a competition should be setting up judge panels wherever practical so that a more experienced judge is paired with a less experienced judge. I kind of look at it like seedings for an athletic tournament. You put the most experienced judge with the least experienced, then the next most with the next least, and so on. Also, the competition organizer and/or judge coordinator should be asking you what your preferences are, which styles you don't want to do, and which styles you can't do (because you entered those styles). In some contests, the organizers will let you know what you're scheduled to judge a few days before the contest. (This is great!!!!!) All judges (experienced or inexperienced) should be objective in deciding what they're good at judging, and what they aren't. In the competition's I've judged, I've never been assigned to a panel for a style that I didn't want to judge, and the only time I recall that happening to anyone was when the judge just showed up and was assigned on the day of competition. (It was an anti-hophead assigned to the IPA panel - How cruel!) >From my own experience before becoming a judge (as a steward at big competitions and as a judge at little competitions), the experienced judges really help in pointing out what the unusual tastes, aromas, and other characteristics are. Look for assistance from an experienced judge (but don't necessarily be bullied by an overly assertive one!). I'm also a proponent of trying to brew a lot of different styles of beer. Going through the process of trying to make an unusual style (like a Berliner Weisse) really gets you attuned with the style (even if the beer misses the mark at #$%&!). Do that and try to drink as many different kind of commercial styles as you can find (but not all at once!). For me, judging is kind of an educational process and not an end unto itself. The more I judge, the better my judging and beer appreciation becomes (I hope!!). > It seems that many of Jeff R.'s comments about his CAP (and his belief that > it was poorly judged) could have been addressed directly by judges using a > review sheet. More directly, many of the negative comments may have been > absent had the judge(s) really understood that certain flavor components > were allowed, etc. I think one unmentioned, yet implicitly recognized, problem with the Classic American Pilsener is the lack of a commercial example to point to. It's the only style in the BJCP guidelines that doesn't have a commercial style as a reference. Therefore, you gotta brew one yourself to have an example (or find some friends who've already done it). It would be tough for me to judge this one without help. That's definitely a style I want to brew this fall! Greg Lorton Carlsbad, CA Return-Path: judge-owner at synchro.com Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.26]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA07221 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.144.90]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA12656 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:25:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 7/28/98 - 7/29/98 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:03:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ Re: Jeff Kenton's Judge Questions (Gregory A. Lorton) -------------------------------------------------------- From: Gregory A. Lorton Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:05:45 -0700 Subject: Re: Jeff Kenton's Judge Questions Jeff Kenton writes > > Howdy. I just wanted to ask a couple of questions about judge topics. I am > not yet a judge, but feel I should know a few things before I jump into the > ring. > > Specifically, I want to know if it is required for judges to know EVERY > style. I know the particulars on quite a few styles, but if judges are > assigned randomly to panels, I might not be able to do a good job on > certain panels. That is, I don't know the particulars for every style, and > if I were assigned to a panel like Weisse, I would just be guessing. > In reviewing several style guidelines, I have seen that nearly every > governing body recognizes beer styles slightly differently. To keep all of > these guidelines straight in my mind concurrently would be a herculean > effort. (If it really is required, I might have to forget some other > important facts, like my name, address, telephone number, etc.) Wouldn't it > be appropriate to have a crib sheet on the table that outlined the > specifics of the style, such as flavor faults, required taste components, > color range, etc.? Maybe this is a little sacrilegious (private flames accepted at glorton at cts.com), but as a beginning judge, you don't need to have all of the styles memorized. But you should be able to read the guidelines before you begin judging so you know what to look for. And you have to be able to translate what the guidelines say into the perceptions that you will see (taste, smell, feel, and hear) in the beers. It never hurts to bring along a copy of the style guidelines, just in case the competition organizers don't provide them. Also, hopefully you'd be judging with someone with experience in the style. But while I've said that you probably don't need to know all of the styles to judge, you probably do need to know all of the styles to do well on the BJCP exam. You don't know what styles you'll be asked to describe on the exam, so the more you know, the better your chances. On an exam that I proctored (administered?) in May, the test-takers had to describe the characteristics of 13 identified substyles, plus identify and describe the characteristics of major beer styles from Edinburgh, Berlin, and Bamberg. Judges shouldn't be randomly assigned to panels. The organizer and/or judge coordinator for a competition should be setting up judge panels wherever practical so that a more experienced judge is paired with a less experienced judge. I kind of look at it like seedings for an athletic tournament. You put the most experienced judge with the least experienced, then the next most with the next least, and so on. Also, the competition organizer and/or judge coordinator should be asking you what your preferences are, which styles you don't want to do, and which styles you can't do (because you entered those styles). In some contests, the organizers will let you know what you're scheduled to judge a few days before the contest. (This is great!!!!!) All judges (experienced or inexperienced) should be objective in deciding what they're good at judging, and what they aren't. In the competition's I've judged, I've never been assigned to a panel for a style that I didn't want to judge, and the only time I recall that happening to anyone was when the judge just showed up and was assigned on the day of competition. (It was an anti-hophead assigned to the IPA panel - How cruel!) >From my own experience before becoming a judge (as a steward at big competitions and as a judge at little competitions), the experienced judges really help in pointing out what the unusual tastes, aromas, and other characteristics are. Look for assistance from an experienced judge (but don't necessarily be bullied by an overly assertive one!). I'm also a proponent of trying to brew a lot of different styles of beer. Going through the process of trying to make an unusual style (like a Berliner Weisse) really gets you attuned with the style (even if the beer misses the mark at #$%&!). Do that and try to drink as many different kind of commercial styles as you can find (but not all at once!). For me, judging is kind of an educational process and not an end unto itself. The more I judge, the better my judging and beer appreciation becomes (I hope!!). > It seems that many of Jeff R.'s comments about his CAP (and his belief that > it was poorly judged) could have been addressed directly by judges using a > review sheet. More directly, many of the negative comments may have been > absent had the judge(s) really understood that certain flavor components > were allowed, etc. I think one unmentioned, yet implicitly recognized, problem with the Classic American Pilsener is the lack of a commercial example to point to. It's the only style in the BJCP guidelines that doesn't have a commercial style as a reference. Therefore, you gotta brew one yourself to have an example (or find some friends who've already done it). It would be tough for me to judge this one without help. That's definitely a style I want to brew this fall! Greg Lorton Carlsbad, CA