Return-Path: judge-owner at synchro.com Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.26]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06131 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 00:00:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.144.90]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA12561 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:59:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 7/21/98 - 7/21/98 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:59:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ RE: Digest for the period 7/20/98 - 7/21/98 (Buonocore, Stephen M) RE: Digest for the period 7/20/98 - 7/21/98 (Chuck Cox) Re: Digest for the period 7/20/98 - 7/21/98 (Michael Rasmussen) Re: Beer Judge Digest to be turned off (Chuck Cox) Competition Preparations (Steve) New BJCP judges (Gregory A. Lorton) Re: Digest for the period 7/20/98 - 7/21/98 (SeraAlphas at aol.com) Re: Digest for the period 7/20/98 - 7/21/98 (David Sherfey) Posting Address (Chuck Cox) Re: Digest for the period 7/20/98 - 7/21/98 (Mark S. Johnston) -------------------------------------------------------- From: Buonocore, Stephen M Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:07:42 -0400 Subject: RE: Digest for the period 7/20/98 - 7/21/98 Chuck, Can you please explain the difference between the formats that you mention? I don't know the difference between "multipart/mixed" and "multipart/digest". I can guess what "plain text" is all about.... :-) Thanks! Best, Stephen -------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Cox Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:11:22 -0400 Subject: RE: Digest for the period 7/20/98 - 7/21/98 The multipart/* formats are MIME formats for including multiple messages in a single email. If your mail reader does not support MIME digests, you should probably continue receiving the plain/text version. If your mailer does support MIME digests, it should tell you which format it prefers. - Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - -------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Rasmussen Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:22:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Digest for the period 7/20/98 - 7/21/98 mail from JudgeNet - the beer judge digest said: > This is really just a test message. Let me know if you didn't receive this > message. Are you sure that is what you wanted to say? You really want people who didn't receive your message to let you know about it? I didn't get that one last Thursday either! ;) -- Michael Rasmussen mikeraz at patch.com Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity Better a brewer than a banker be. -------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Cox Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:17:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Beer Judge Digest to be turned off I would like to thank Karl & Pat for their efforts and cooperation during the JudgeNet outage. They not only filled in while JudgeNet was down, they were gracious and cooperative when it returned. They will continue to help by maintaining a backup of the subscriber list and are ready to take over if JudgeNet goes down again. Thanks guys. - Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - -------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:10:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Competition Preparations Thanks to all who kept up a forum discussing issues relevant to beer judging and homebrewing competitions during the hiatus of this particular version of the forum. Many of the topics discussed during the past weeks have provided our competition staff with some valuable information that will help us to plan for a bigger and better competition in October. We look forward to the future and the opportunities to address other relevant issues as they come up in our planning and implementation. Steve Johnson, President Music City Brewers Nashville, TN -------------------------------------------------------- From: Gregory A. Lorton Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:36:38 -0700 Subject: New BJCP judges Congratulations to Peter Zien, Randy Barnes, Erol Kilki, and Tod Fitzsimmons (all of the San Diego area), and Bob Grueneberg of Santa Barbara for passing the May 16 BJCP exam held in San Diego. Peter, Randy, and Erol each got scores that will qualify them as national judges (once they gain the experience points), and Bob and Tod scored at the certified judge level. All of these guys were taking the test for the first time. Congratulations, again! Greg Lorton Carlsbad, CA -------------------------------------------------------- From: SeraAlphas at aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:42:37 EDT Subject: Re: Digest for the period 7/20/98 - 7/21/98 just out of curiosity, if I didn't receive it, how was I supposed to let you know if I didn't receive it? Or am I just being too damn literal? -------------------------------------------------------- From: David Sherfey Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:18:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 7/20/98 - 7/21/98 You'll probably get more of this, but I couldn't resist..... JudgeNet - the beer judge digest wrote: > > Table of contents > ------------------------------------------------------ > Digest Formats (Chuck Cox) > > -------------------------------------------------------- > From: Chuck Cox Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:41:51 -0400 > Subject: Digest Formats > > This is really just a test message. Let me know if you didn't receive this > message. If I didn't recieve your message, how would I have known that you had sent it? Just messin' with you.....stay cool! David Sherfey Warwick, NY -------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Cox Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:55:23 -0400 Subject: Posting Address To post a message to JudgeNet, send it to judge at synchro.com - Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - -------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark S. Johnston Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:15:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Digest for the period 7/20/98 - 7/21/98 >Let me know if you didn't receive this message. Ummm. Errrr. Uuuhhhh. OK. ;-) Return-Path: spencer at engin.umich.edu Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.26]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA18772 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:20:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hubris.engin.umich.edu (spencer at hubris.engin.umich.edu [207.75.146.24]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA12986 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (spencer at localhost) by hubris.engin.umich.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA17141 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:20:44 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Message-Id: <199807230520.BAA17141 at hubris.engin.umich.edu> Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.26]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA11350 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 00:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from synchro.com (cccox.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.144.90]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA09264 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 00:00:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" To: "Digest Recipients" Reply-To: "JudgeNet - the beer judge digest" Subject: Digest for the period 7/21/98 - 7/23/98 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 00:00:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Hops: 1 Resent-To: spencer at engin.umich.edu Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:20:44 -0400 Resent-From: Spencer W Thomas Table of contents ------------------------------------------------------ DMS and CAP judging (Jeff Renner) -------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Renner Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:45:35 -0400 Subject: DMS and CAP judging Judges I got my scoresheet back from the NHC first round in Chicago for a CAP (Classic American Pilsner). The beer was 3 months old when I CP bottled it in April, and I suspect it was beginning to show its age, so I don't dispute the 29 score. Last night I tasted one of the last bottles I CPed at the same time and it has lost its composure, so to speak. Not bad, just tired and nearly as good as it was. I think it would have been 10 points higher out of the keg when fresh. But what I definitely object to is the lack of knowledge regarding DMS by both judges, one a national ranked one (whose name is not familiar to me from these pages) and the other with no rank given. They objected to its level (I'm not sure the weren't misidentifying the corn, and I suspect they colaborated) and their suggestions about what to do about it were largely wrong. Since this is a style near and dear to my heart, as many of you know, I want to get judges educated about it. Both judges objected to the level of DMS, which I found again to be appropriate in the bottle I just tasted. Now I like a bit of DMS and think it is a proper component in CAP. George Fix has discussed the subject of taste recently on HBD (*see longish reprint below). Ale drinkers often dislike it, and it is out of place in British and modern American ales, but a CAP without it is insipid, in my mind. Perhaps the judges were mistaking the corn flavor component for DMS, ("malty taste evident with sweet corn taste (DMS)") especially as I do a cereal mash which involves boiling the corn with some malt after a cereal mash. The corn contribution, which includes a kind of sweetness, is evident, and nice. Or maybe they just don't like it, like George's wife Laurie. The guidelines say "A low level of DMS is acceptable." I tried to get "low level of DMS is *appropriate*," but had to settle for this. It certainly was a characteristic in the past, especially in mid-west beers (again see Fix). But what is worse is the judges' suggestions for "correcting" this "problem:" National judge: "DMS flavor seems to dominate. If using corn adjunct cut back..." WRONG! DMS does not come from corn, even though many folks find it to have a sweet corn aroma. It comes from the malt, especially low kilned pilsner malts (see note below about 6-row). National again "...or watch fermentation temperatures." Watch them how? I suspect he means don't let them get too high, but this is exactly wrong. As AlK posted on HBD: Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:07:53 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas Subject: DMS "Higher fermentation temperatures cause less DMSO to be reduced to DMS than at cooler fermentation temps [MBS p.611]. Furthermore, more DMS is scrubbed from the fermenting beer at warmer temperatures than at lower temperatures [Fix, PoBS, p.142-147]." Unranked judge on reducing DMS: "Maybe try 6-row" WRONG AGAIN! I already do use it, and besides: "Six-row malts contain higher levels of the DMS precursor SMM, presumably because of their higher protein content. " A Comparison of North American Two-Row and Six-Row Malting Barley by Paul Schwarz and Richard Horsley, Brewing Techniques online Buyers Guide. "Authenticity suggests that domestic six-row pale malt should be used, and I am constantly struck by how well six-row pale malt does in a formulation like this." Explorations in Pre-Prohibition American Lagers, George J. Fix, BrewingTechniques' May/June 1994. Unranked judge again: "...or just cool it faster and brew (sic -boil?) with the lid off." This is right, but I already get it to below 80F in 10 minutes after a 5 minute settling time sans lid with 52F well water and an immersion chiller, and boil with the lid off. See Fix's note below about post boil "simmer." I do nothing to increase DMS except perhaps by fermenting at 48-50F and using (Briess) 6-row malt I use (I don't know its SMM level). One time I brewed with Schreier and the garage brewery smelled cloyingly of DMS during the boil, but the beer seemed much the same. This beer, while a bit old, was the same recipe and procedure as a batch that took Michigan State Fair Best of Show last August, and no one complained about excessive DMS on it. If either of the judges is reading this and wants to continue this, I'd be glad to discuss it either offline or on this forum (after I get back from vacation on 8/2) Jeff (Be sure to read George Fix's comments on DMS): * Date: Tue, 9 Jun 98 13:27:14 -0500 From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix): "In the widely used Milgaard system "excessive" means over two flavor units, i.e., concentrations in excess of two times the flavor threshold. In addition, DMS evolution closely follows first order kinetics, and if you work out the math associated with that you will arrive at the cited temperature range. "It is true that different people have different tolerances for DMS. I grew up on traditional lager beer (continental and domestic), and until I married Laurie (who can not stand DMS) I generally felt that lagers with subthreshold levels were insipid. She had me do several things to get DMS levels down. Ironically, one of the most effective was a 15 min. open simmer at 90-95C after the boil (although this effect may depend on the type of brewing equipment used). I feel overall the beers had a cleaner finish than previous brews, although they were a tad less complex. "The reduction of DMS levels in lagers seems to be an international trend. Even a cursory review of the German literature shows that almost universally they see levels above one Milgaard flavor unit as being a flaw. In recent years I have have been involved in four commercial startups (one micro and three brewpubs), and in each of these consumer acceptance of pilot brews consistently went up as DMS went down (at least with ~80% of the population in the tests). "As amateur brewers we of course can do whatever we want to do including increasing DMS levels (something I do on those occasions when Laurie is not supervising the brewing session!). However, those who are primarily ale fans who make lagers only on occasions may want to consider measures for lowering DMS levels and see what results from such a change. Bamforth in his new book uses the term "cat urine" as a descriptor for DMS. I am not sure I totally agree with this term, however it does give a vivid description of how ale brewers tend to react to DMS!" -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943.