Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 00:01:05 -0400
Message-Id: <199807200401.AAA25528 at brew.oeonline.com>
To: judge at hbd.org
From: judge-request at hbd.org (Request Address Only - No Articles)
Reply-to: judge at hbd.org (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
Errors-to: judge-request at hbd.org
Precedence: bulk
Subject: Beer Judge Digest #24 (July 20, 1998)


Beer Judge Digest #24		             Mon 20 July 1998


	FORUM ON BEER JUDGING AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Custodian: custodian at hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Beer Judge Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: FW: JudgeNet (Dion Hollenbeck)
  BU's (AJ)
  A tale of two forums ("Pat Babcock")
  Re: Hop Go-Round (Jeff Renner)
  Beer Judge Digest to be turned off. ("Lutzen, Karl F.")


     Have you organized a competition lately?
Send articles for __publication_only__ to judge at hbd.org
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.) 

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to judge-request at hbd.org. 
**SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL
**ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!! 
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and
  the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail!

YOU MUST BE A BEER JUDGE OR BE REFERRED BY ONE TO SUBSCRIBE!!! 
You MUST be a subscriber in order to post articles!!! 

Requests for back issues will be ignored. 

CUSTODIANS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (custodian at hbd.org)

              "Not a publication of the BJCP"


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 17 Jul 1998 18:44:20 -0700
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at woodsprite.com>
Subject: Re: FW: JudgeNet

>> Lutzen, Karl F writes:

KL> I just received this note from Chuck Cox.  JudgeNet is now 
KL> back online.  This brings us to a point that I knew would 
KL> occur someday: do we continue to run the BJD in parallel
KL> to JudgeNet (with the inevitable cross-posting, and possible
KL> confusion)?

Well, I say that we first get some feedback from Pat Babcock, since it
appears that he would have been the one to launch this forum.  Was it
a lot of work and expense?  If not, I strongly suggest that we move
the forum back to synchro and share any of the new list members with
Chuck and his efforts.

If there are comments from Pat of "went to a lot of work and money",
then I think it behooves us to plan long and hard how to best utilize
both of these forums so that neither goes to waste.

Let's be fair to all as best we can in an informed manner.

dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck                  Email: hollen at woodsprite.com
Home Page:  http://woodsprite.com/hollen.html
Brewing Page:  http://hdb.org/hollen


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 12:03:37 -0400
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: BU's

RE:
>  which calculated out to about 35-39 IBU's.  The reality was
>  an average around 65 IBU's, with enough variation to make one
>  scratch their head in wonder.

The variation among the beers is less surprising to me than the
disparity between the predicted and mean levels. In the few of my own
beers that I've tested the discrepancy is more like predict 40 and
measure 42 -44. Were  commercial beers measured for sanity checking ( I
measure Pilsner Urquel at 37 though Miller says it's 43)? A 1 cm cuvette
(the MOA isn't very definite about this but it's pretty clear that 1 cm
is what's called for)? The instrument has been recently calibrated?
Measured against an octanol - octane blank? I'm not trying to shoot
holes here just wondering what might cause such a disparity (and
wondering if I should be wondering at all - maybe the formulas are
really that bad).

How about the hops - were they measured (shake half an hour!)?


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 15:00:36 -0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: A tale of two forums

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Only time - Karl's time, for the most part - went into the launch of 
this forum. 

I vote to shut it down.

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Web Site  http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page         http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 14:27:21 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Hop Go-Round

Louis Bonham gives us a sneak preview of the HBDPAE results.  I have been
using the "Dr. Bob Technical's Hop Go-Round" for a year or so and find it
gives me good results.  It is simply a white plastic circular slide rule
about 8" diameter.   To use it you line up batch size and amount of hops,
then line up % efficience and %AA, and read out IBU.  On the back is a
utilization chart which is the same, as I recall, as the one in the wall
chart that come with the recent Zymurgy special hops issue (Rager's?) and a
list of some typical %AA for some hops and typical beer IBU ranges.  The
only judgement call is utilization, the rest is simple arithmetic, which
this does for you.  I find it much simpler than electronics, and I like the
visual aspect of this analog method.

Plugging in the PAE hops that Louis provided gave these utilizations and
IBU results:

>23 g   10.5% AA   75 min.	30%	38 IBU
>23 g    4.8% AA    30 min.	20%	12 IBU
>23 g    4.8% AA    15 min	14%	  8 IBU
>23 g    4.8% AA    0 min.	~3%? 	~2 IBU
				______
				  60 IBU

This is pretty close to the mean of the brewers' results and the same as
Rager's.  I think this cost around $8, and I find it well worthwhile.  I'm
surprised that I haven't seen it reviewed in the mags.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:15:56 -0500
From: "Lutzen, Karl F." <kfl at umr.edu>
Subject: Beer Judge Digest to be turned off.

Ok folks, I meant this digest to be a fill-in for JudgeNet as it seemed
to be taking quite a while to re-appear.  As it is back online, and I've
heard from several subscribers saying to shut this one down, (none to 
absolutely keep it alive), this digest will be shut down on Friday 
July 24 (Thursday is the last digest). All current discussions need 
to be wrapped up by then, and no new lengthy discussions should be
started. Take 'em to JudgeNet!

Subscription info to JudgeNet:
	
send a message to mailserver at synchro.com containing:

   subscribe judge

I will keep the software for BJD on a "warm standby" status if we should
ever need to resurrect the BJD.

It was fun!

=====================================================================
Karl F. Lutzen                   | Computing and Information Services 
Scientific Programmer Analyst II | University of Missouri - Rolla
E-Mail: kfl at umr.edu              | 114 Math-Computer Science Bldg. 
Fax: (573) 341-4216              | 1870 Miner Circle 
Voice: (573) 341-4841            | Rolla, MO 65409-0360
=====================================================================


------------------------------
End of Beer Judge Digest #24, 07/20/98
*************************************
-------