Return-Path: judge-request at brew.oeonline.com Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.26]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA24098 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 00:34:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.36]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA14851 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 00:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from root at localhost) by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.5) with X.500 id AAA25808; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 00:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brew.oeonline.com (brew.oeonline.com [206.31.224.50]) by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.5) with ESMTP id AAA25803; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 00:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from root at localhost) by brew.oeonline.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA22849 for realjudge; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 00:01:04 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 00:01:04 -0400 Message-Id: <199807060401.AAA22849 at brew.oeonline.com> To: judge at hbd.org From: judge-request at hbd.org (Request Address Only - No Articles) Reply-to: judge at hbd.org (Posting Address Only - No Requests) Errors-to: judge-request at hbd.org Precedence: bulk Subject: Beer Judge Digest #12 (July 06, 1998) Status: O X-Status: Beer Judge Digest #12 Mon 06 July 1998 FORUM ON BEER JUDGING AND RELATED ISSUES Digest Custodian: custodian at hbd.org Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Beer Judge Digest. URL: http://www.oeonline.com Contents: Re: BJCP vs. AHA Categories (Reegleyj) BJCP Exam in Portland Or - July 24 (Bob McCracken) AHA Finals Judes Needed (Bob McCracken) Score Sheet Status (Russ Wigglesworth) New Score Sheets (Lyle C. Brown) Send articles for __publication_only__ to judge at hbd.org (Articles are published in the order they are received.) If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to judge-request at hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL **ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!! IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! YOU MUST BE A BEER JUDGE OR BE REFERRED BY ONE TO SUBSCRIBE!!! You MUST be a subscriber in order to post articles!!! Requests for back issues will be ignored. CUSTODIANS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (custodian at hbd.org) "Not a publication of the BJCP" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:10:12 EDT From: Reegleyj at aol.com Subject: Re: BJCP vs. AHA Categories In a message dated 7/2/98 11:05:27 PM, judge-request at hbd.org wrote: <> In general I think the BJCP style guidelines are preferable to the AHA ones, but I agree that the BJCP should add a "Specialty and Experimental Beer" category. Some beers just don't fit into the BJCP "Fruit Beer" or "Spice/Herb/Vegetable Beer" categories. How is an entrant supposed to classify the Stein-Beer he made in this system? In what category should I enter the Oak-Aged Old Ale I made? I did enter it in the Spice/Herb Veg category in one competition using the BJCP styles, and the result was totally uncomprehending and unhelpful comments from the judges. Brad Reeg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:46:13 -0400 From: Bob McCracken Subject: BJCP Exam in Portland Or - July 24 The Oregon Brew Crew will be Proctoring a BJCP Exam in Portland Oregon, Friday July 24 from 9-12AM. If you will be in town and would like to take the exam please contact me for more info. Exact Location is TBD, but we will make it as close to the AHA convention site as possible for those of you in town for the AHA convention (or the Brewers Festival :>). Bob McCracken Portland, Or. 04-Jul-98 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:46:12 -0400 From: Bob McCracken Subject: AHA Finals Judes Needed The Oregon Brew Crew has been asked to help recruit Judges and Stewards for the AHA Finals Judging here in Portland - The judging is scheduled for July 21 & 22 (Tuesday & Wednesday) during the AHA Conference in Portland, Oregon. This is your chance to judge the best. To make life easier, you can register to judge (or steward) online at: http://www.patch.com/obc/nhc98nat.html Or directly to me - bobmc at compuserve.com Any questions etc.. please let me know. Bob McCracken Portland, Or. 04-Jul-98 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 12:45:43 -0700 From: Russ Wigglesworth Subject: Score Sheet Status Al writes: > I don't think there has been an *official* rollout of the new scoresheet Yes it is official. The new sheet as well as the instructions and cover sheets were sent to all BJCP judges in the Annual Mailing. It has been distributed to all BJCP Registered competitions for the past several months. RW... Russ Wigglesworth - Program Administrator Beer Judge Certification Program PO Box 751271 - Petaluma CA 94975 707-769-0425 (h) 415-502-1070 (w) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:20:55 -0400 From: beerking1 at juno.com (Lyle C. Brown) Subject: New Score Sheets In Judge digest #11, Jeremey Bergsman writes: " Here is my time-worn example. Under the old sheet hops are worth 6 points or so, not counting interactions with other components like [I'm talking about the flavor section here-JBB] the "balance." As this was about 20% of the functional range, we can see that getting the hops right contributes a lot to your score. But the guy making a weizen can do the hops right in his sleep-just a touch of noble hops at the beginning of the boil. But how about the guy making the ESB? Goldings? Fuggles? Both? Will the bitterness balance the little extra caramel from the extra crystal he decides to add since his last attempt didn't have enough?" I would disagree on one point here. As anyone who has made a low hop beer, such as a weizen, knows, it can be just as difficult, perhaps even more difficult to get the hopping level correct at a low level as at a high level. In fact, Jeremy makes my point himself with his suggestion that every beer style has a "component that is a "gimmie?"" one of his examples is " IPA Hop aroma (just load it on!:))". If this is indeed true, then perhaps an IPA is easier to hop than a weizen. Regarding hops type, Jeremy states "just a touch of noble hops at the beginning of the boil" further explaining that a ESB brewer is confronted with the difficult decision "Goldings? Fuggles? Both?" How much more difficult (or easier) is this than the decision of "a touch of noble hops," Hallertauer? Tettnanger? Saaz? Two? Three? Or if just Hallertauer, then H. Mittlefreuh, Hersbrucker.....? Point being, the important thing is that the hops (or color or bitterness or malt or...) be appropriate for the style being judged. Just because a beer style is low in a particular character, does not make it any more or less difficult to produce. This is carried further with Greg Lorton's comments about color. He uses examples of judging "American pale and amber ales, German ales, California common, and a couple of Belgian styles" in comments about color. While color can be very important in these styles, it is nowhere near as restrictive as perhaps Marzen or Munich Helles. 2 SRM in these styles could make quite a difference, esp. when determining ribbons. Given the importance of color in these 2 styles, should the entire 3 points (new sheets) be given over to color??? I don't consider this a serious suggestion, but no more or less realistic than giving more or less points possible to a weizen in hops or clarity. (the appropriate level of cloudiness is important in a weizen, no more, no less). Finally, Greg mentions the Descriptor Definition Boxes. I don't think use of these boxes is neccessarily a detriment to the beer. It is up to the judge to use the comments to explain his use of the boxes. I would expect to mark the phenol box in any reasonable weizen. This does not mean it is overly phenolic for style, the box only states that the beer is phenolic. I myself have used this technique in most of my judging where it was appropriate. There is no label on the sheet that says any of these descriptor is a problem. If a judge slammed a tripel as "too phenolic," then it either was overly and excessively phenolic, or the judge was wrong and perhaps did not know his styles. Not having tasted the beer, I don't know, but either is possible. It is possible to have an overly phenolic Tripel, too malty a doppelbock or too hoppy an IPA (although VERY difficult, I am a bonafide hophead!). It is imperative for us a judges to know and distinguish the difference. Having a certain charateristic very strong is not a "gimme," for brewers or judges! Finally, Noel Blake talks about using "overall impressions" as a sort of catch all to reflect problems in the beer. I completely agree. A beer with serious problems in any category should also be reflected in "overall impressions." This section should be a sort of summary of the beer as a whole. For a beer to score, say 0 in appearance, and 8-10 in overall impression is probably not right. Lyle C. Brown P.S. This got a little long. And I hope it did not come across as a flame. It is not intended as such. All authors mentioned raised some very good points, and I am only adding my 2 cents worth. ------------------------------ End of Beer Judge Digest #12, 07/06/98 ************************************* -------