Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:33:26 -0400
Message-Id: <199706251233.IAA04631 at synchro.com>
From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com
To: judge-digest at synchro.com
Subject:   judge-digest V1 #1461
Reply-To: judge at synchro.com
Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com
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judge-digest              Wednesday, 25 June 1997      Volume 01 : Number 1461

 ============================================================================
       J u d g e N e t   -   t h e   b e e r   j u d g e   d i g e s t
 ============================================================================

 Moderator:        Chuck Cox          <chuck at synchro.com>
 Archivist:        Spencer Thomas     <spencer at umich.edu>
 Publisher:        SynchroSystems     <info at synchro.com>

 Submissions:      judge at synchro.com
 Subscriptions:    judge-request at synchro.com
 Archive:          http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge
 BJCP info:        geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com

 ============================================================================
 contents:

 X  Beers
 Styles
 Re: Beers too big for style
 Re: BOS beers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jeff at edm.ca (Jeff Pinhey)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:21:59 -0400
Subject: X  Beers

There is a bias created by beer judges simply having tasted many beers in
their lives, and, for the most part, having personal preferences for the
more extreme examples of a style.  I have observed that many homebrewers
progress thourgh time to end up preferring more agressive styles (belgian
strongs, lambics, barley wines, IPA's).  This is similar to wine
appreciator's gradual growth in preference to big reds.  Most beer judges
are not neophytes, and that overall trend probably affects how beers score
in competition.

There is also, of course, the issue of palate fatigue, as discussed by
someone else here.  After 10 beers, a subtly flavoured, balanced example of
the style can come out as adequate.  That is  part of the "human" component
of sensory evaluation.

One other thing - the size of the sample.  I don't know about other judges,
but some styles of beer, for me, taste best after I've had half a pint
(bitters especially).  Attempting to judge a beer on 3 ounces is not really
a representative sample of the drinking experience, but it is all we have
to work with.  I think this tends to favour more extreme beers.

One of my personal concerns when judging is that a balanced beer can taste
ordinary if judged late in a round, whereas an unbalanced one can come
across as superior.  Balance is not an easy thing to achieve in a beer, and
it is fundamental to some styles that are designed to be "session" beers.
In competition, these beer sseldom win out against more extreme
sub-categories. (ie. ordinary bitter vs. ESB)

On another point discussed in the last digest, I agree that there seems to
be a distinct "backlash" bias AGAINST big beers come BOS time.


#######################################################
         Jeff Pinhey, Halifax, Nova Scotia


------------------------------

From: Bill Giffin <billgiffin at maine.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:26:33 -0500
Subject: Styles

Top of the morning to ye all,

I would like to believe all the folks that believe that the bigger is better
syndrome is gone.  I  know that there are many beers which win in 
competitions which are clearly within the style guidelines. 

The problem I have is. that the majority of beers that win are still at the
high
end of the guidelines.  Very few winning beers are in the lower half of the
guideline for original gravity.  Many of the beers that win 2d or 3d are
slightly
more extreme then the first place beer.  A high percentage of the winning
beers are either over hopped or use ingredients which at not appropriate to
the style.

The AHA NHC  over the past few years has had a majority of the winners out
of style most of them on the BIG side.  More BJCP judges are involved in the
NHC then any other, and more then half of the winners are out of style.  

Frequently we as judges, judge far more beers then we can adequately judge
due to lack of judges, and time constants.  How can we be so sure that the
beers we judge after judging 10 to 20 beer prior to the one that we are now
judging is in style?  Simply we can't.

Rather then admit and solve the problems we have as judges we seem to
ignore the problem by saying everything is OK.  We need to stop depending
on the exam for the only means required for advancement.  We need peer
review.  We need a method of qualifying judges by category.  Judges need to
have continuing education as a requirement to continue to judge.

To those folks that think that all beer are judged to style I sincerely
hope that
they are enjoying their fantasy land. 

Bill

------------------------------

From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at vigra.com>
Date: 24 Jun 1997 07:40:33 -0700
Subject: Re: Beers too big for style

>> George De Piro writes:

GDP> oThere is danger in the habit of reading recipes and extrapolating
GDP> the beer's aroma and flavor.  Assuming that the brewer gave an
GDP> accurate recipe (a big assumption), you have no idea if their
GDP> hops were old, if the malt was fresh or crushed two weeks before
GDP> mashing, etc.  These are all factors that will effect the beer's
GDP> character in very noticeable ways.  The only way to know a beer
GDP> is to drink it!
     
While I totally agree with what you say, IMHO, this should never
happen.  The judges should never see a recipe.  The only time that a
judge should even get a hint of a recipe is when there are special
ingredients or special procedures that need to be conveyed to
accurately judge the beer in a specialty category, or the sweetness
factors or fruits in meads and metheglins.  And that information
should be conveyed in the pull list for the flight, the judges should
never get a copy of the recipe.  In fact, the only time I ever look at
a recipe on the day of the competition is to verify any specialty
ingredients of the judges ask for a clarification of the pull list.

dion

QUAFF President

Organizer
America's Finest City Homebrew Competition  March 8, 1997
Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity, Sponsor
http://www.vigra.com/~hollen/AFCHBC.html

- ---
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164                 Email: hollen at vigra.com
                                             http://www.vigra.com/~hollen
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs  San Diego, California

------------------------------

From: korz at xnet.com
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:45:46 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: BOS beers

Scott writes:
>Thanks to the propagation of this myth [big beer bias],
>it has become nearly impossible for
>big beers to do well in the best of show judging.  Yes, big or asssertively
>flavored beers such as weizens do stand out, but many judges now do not want
>to be accused of the big beer bias.  But I suppose I should be content
>with brewing a barleywine that regularly scores in the mid 40s even if
>it gets knocked out of the BOS round by a mild.

I think that we as judges need to be mindful of erring in either direction.
At the 1995 (I think) HWBTA BOS, we had it narrowed down to three beers,
selected one for 3rd place and then wrestled with which to rank 1st and
which to rank 2nd for quite a while.  If my memory servese correctly,
after much debate we finally chose the Eisbock 1st and the Berliner Weiss
2nd.  Ironically, these were the highest and lowest alcohol content beers
at the competition!

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com


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End of judge-digest V1 #1461
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