Return-Path: owner-judge at synchro.com Received: from srvr7.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr7.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.69]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03014 for ; Sun, 25 May 1997 18:07:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (0 at judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.37]) by srvr7.engin.umich.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA18529 for ; Sun, 25 May 1997 18:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.2) with X.500 id SAA03127; Sun, 25 May 1997 18:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uu6.psi.com by judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.2) with SMTP id SAA03122; Sun, 25 May 1997 18:07:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA01620 for spencer at umich.edu; Sun, 25 May 97 18:07:01 -0400 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by synchro.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA05099 for judge-digest-outgoing; Sun, 25 May 1997 17:24:31 -0400 Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 17:24:31 -0400 Message-Id: <199705252124.RAA05099 at synchro.com> From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com To: judge-digest at synchro.com Subject: judge-digest V1 #1445 Reply-To: judge at synchro.com Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com Precedence: bulk judge-digest Sunday, 25 May 1997 Volume 01 : Number 1445 ============================================================================ J u d g e N e t - t h e b e e r j u d g e d i g e s t ============================================================================ Moderator: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publisher: SynchroSystems Submissions: judge at synchro.com Subscriptions: judge-request at synchro.com Archive: http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge BJCP info: geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com ============================================================================ contents: The Relevance of the Exam BURP is Looking for a Few Good Judges... AHA NHC 1st Round Chicago - RESULTS BJCP Scoresheets Re: Mis-categorizing entries Re: Wrong Categories Re: Mis-Categorizing Styles RE: Citrusy hops / Wheat flavor Vancouver International Amateur Brewers Competition legibility on the exam NHC Results-Southeast ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kieran O'Connor" Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 06:33:17 -0400 Subject: The Relevance of the Exam Scott Bickham and I have recently had a discussion of the exam off line, I'd like to drop a note to Judgenet to discuss the validity of the exam. Please note: Scott disagrees 100% with me on point number one, but we haven't discussed point number two in depth. My background: K-12 Educational Technology. As such i deal with curriculum a lot of the time and we ask ourselves the following questions: what do we want our kids to be able to do, what do we need to do to help them learn it, and how will we know that they have learned it. As I reflect on the exam, my feeling is that right now what we want examinees to do (provide excellent feedback to judges) is not in synch with the exam (how will they show they have learned it). I believe that the level of *depth* necessary to earn a 90 is too high given that an excellent score sheet from a master judge does not have the amount of depth that the written portion of the exam requires. The written portion seems to ask examinees to know a lot about *brewing* while the exam should be about *judging*. ( I realize that the BJCP mission states recognizing brewing and judging knowledge, but I believe it to be a mistake: we are about judging). Of course there is a connection with brewing and judging, I'm not saying there isnt, but one can be an excellent judge without knowing the amount of info required to score a 90 on the exam. We have a local judge, Dave Graham, who, IMHO provides probably the best feedback I've seen on scoresheets. He freely admits that he could not get a 90 on the exam *now* (although he did get a 90 about 6 years ago) but his feedback is top notch and lacks for nothing. The exam has a good general format and the questions for the most part are good. But I think we intimidate examinees and neelessly ask the examinees to show they know a lot about brewing when they don't need to. We want them to be judges and provide feedback: when they show us a depth in feedback then we'll know they are good judges. Depth requires technical, style and other brewing knowledge, but not to the level now required to score a 90 or better. Showing depth in feedback brings up issue number two: right now the examinee shows his or her judging abilities once: when he or she takes the exam. From then on a judge will advance merely by showing up for contests and judging: without showing evidence of growth. So I can get an 80 on the exam, provide mediocre judging, and advance to National judge without anyone at the BJCP seeing my score sheets. I'd like to propose that in order to advance a judge needs to have evidence of good judging, rather than evidence of attendance at a competition. Here's a modest proposal: Have competition organizers randomly photocopy a score sheet from each judge for the day and send it on to the BJCP to create a judging protfolio. When a recognized judge has judged 5 competitions, his or her five points *and* five "certified" level score sheets would be his or her ticket to certified status. So we'd be asking judges to show us that they've progressed to the next level with evidence, rather than attendance. I appreciate that this involves extra work: competition organizers copying a score sheet (I've run 320 entry comps), storage of these portfolios (who, where how?), evaluation of the portfolios (subjective yes, but so is the exam, and I think it's fairly graded). But if we're about quality judging we need to provide feedback *to the judges* before they advance and make evidence of quality feedback a prerequisite for advancement. I think we can provide this type of evaluation and am willing to commit my time to it: maybe not under what I've outlined above, but under another mechanism if someone has a good idea about how to do it.. Think about it, and post comments. Don't spend time discussing the mechanism I've outlined, but consider the idea: feedback to judges: how can we do that for judges? Kieran Kieran O'Connor Cortland City Schools/OCM BOCES Systems Consultant Syracuse, NY USA koconnor at cnyric.org (607) 753-6061 or (315) 433-8335 ------------------------------ From: stevens at stsci.edu (Mark Stevens) Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 10:51:15 -0400 Subject: BURP is Looking for a Few Good Judges... The 5th annual "Spirit of Free Beer" competition is only a couple weeks away (June 7 in Vienna VA) and we are still looking for BJCP judges to join us for a fun day of cameraderie and homebrew. (Many, MANY sincere thanks to those who have already signed up.) BURP always treats judges well. We: * Can arrange lodging for out-of-town judges * Promptly report judging points * Invite judges to come pub crawl with us Friday or Saturday night * Provide open keg of beer during & after judging * Will have an excellent lunch of fresh grilled bratwursts If you're a BJCP judge who would like to spend the first weekend in June in the Washington D.C. area judging some fine homebrews, you can sign up by sending email to Greg Griffin (gmgriff0 at wcc.com). We also offer an outstanding prize package for winners. We are now accepting entries (through May 30). This year we will award 5 "brewer for a day" opportunities, as well as numerous other prizes. Details are on the BURP web page (http://www.burp.org), or you can send email to me. Mark Stevens competition organizer stevens at stsci.edu ------------------------------ From: "Roger Deschner " Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:33:56 CDT Subject: AHA NHC 1st Round Chicago - RESULTS We have (finally) tabulated the results of judging 824 entries last weekend here in Chicago. Congratulations to the winners, listed below. A big thank-you to the legions of judges who came to Chicago, despite the total lack of hotel rooms, to help us out. Also, special thanks to our capable corps of stewards, without whose skills, confusion would have reigned with so many entries. And it couldn't have been done without Assistant Organizers Tom Fitzpatrick and Brad Reeg, or the tireless efforts of numerous other Chicago Beer Society members who stepped forward for unpacking, data entry, and housing out-of-town judges in their homes. This event was the largest single homebrew competition ever held in the Midwest, and perhaps anywhere in the world outside of the State of Texas. (Judges: Your points have already been sent to the BJCP.) We've also got to recognize our gracious host site - Goose Island Beer Company's microbrewery. (not the brewpub). The brightly-lit bottling room turned out to be perfect for judging, and the machinery was a good backdrop for some unusual photos. Thank them by going out and buying more Goose Island beer! Good luck to these winners in the Second Round in Cleveland! Roger Deschner University of Illinois at Chicago rogerd at uic.edu Aliases: u52983 at uicvm.uic.edu R.Deschner at uic.edu =============== "Civilization was CAUSED by beer." ===================== ====Chicago Region Director, 1997 AHA National Homebrew Competitiion==== PLACE BREWER(S) CLUB Barley Wine 1 Brian St. Clair Bloatarian 2 John Kleczewski Headhunters 3 Chuck Boyce Bloatarian Belgian & French Ale 1 Larry D. Gray Bloatarian 2 Chris De Podesta, Karen De Podesta 3 Thomas Peroulas, Daniel Juliano Boneyard UZZ Belgian-Style Lambic 1 Bert Zelten Green Bay 2 Larry D. Gray Bloatarian 3 Al Korzonas Chi Beer Soc Mild & Brown Ale 1 Michael P. Seachrist 2 Bill Pfeiffer Ann Arbor 3 David M. Johnson First Draft English-Style Pale Ale 1 David Allaben Foam Blowers 2 Joseph Styke, Tom Stawarz 3 Kevin Kutskill American-Style Ale 1 Greg Grosklos 2 Paul Kerchefske Sin City 3 Mike Rivard Chi Beer Soc English Bitter 1 Douglas Bloss 2 Valdymar Kopec 3 Philip Venzke Scottish Ale 1 Nick Schroeder 2 Carl Regenfelder Beer Barons 3 Scott Taxman Porter 1 Stephen Klump Ann Arbor 2 Philip Gravel Urban Knaves 3 Todd Grantham English & Scottish Strong Ale 1 Chuck Wettergreen Headhunters 2 Stephen Klump Ann Arbor 3 Michael Brage, Andres Brage, Yonina Tova Stout 1 Robert Hyndman, Debbie Hyndman Duneland 2 Al Korzonas Chi Beer Soc 3 John Warakomski, Ian Tomlinson Bock 1 Art Steinhoff K. Gambrinus 2 Phil Kaszuba Green Mtn 3 Jim Hodge Chi Beer Soc German Dark Lager 1 Thomas Plunkard Ann Arbor 2 John Stevenson 3 Bill Rogers German Light Lager 1 Stephen Klump Ann Arbor 2 Mike Lelivelt Madison HTG 3 Thomas Plunkard Ann Arbor Classic Pilsener 1 Eric Stockinger 2 Terry Richardson Silverado 3 Mark Knoebl Headhunters American Lager 1 Gerald M. Poss, Jr. 2 Thomas Plunkard Ann Arbor 3 John Stevenson Vienna/Marzen/Oktoberfest 1 Scott Whitaker Foam Blowers 2 Paul Martinez Beer Barons 3 Paul Shick German-Style Ale 1 Valdymar Kopec 2 Eric Stockinger 3 Marc Kullberg Chi Beer Soc German-Style Wheat Beer 1 Mike Rivard Chi Beer Soc 2 Dennis Davison Chi Beer Soc 3 Joseph Styke, Tom Stawarz Smoked Beer 1 Paul Hale, Phil Kaszuba, Rich Evans Green Mtn 2 Mike Bardallis Down River 3 Mark Ratliff Commission Fruit & Vegetable Beer 1 Mike Lelivelt Madison HTG 2 Matthew Werner 3 Tom Schlak Herb & Spice Beer 1 Carl Regenfelder, Robert Kustra Beer Barons 2 Robert Pinkerton Bloatarian 3 Chuck Wettergreen Headhunters Specialty & Experimental Beer 1 Hal Buttermore Ann Arbor 2 Bert Zelten Green Bay 3 Paul Hale, Phil Kaszura, Rich Evans Green Mtn California Common Beer 1 Paul Martinez Beer Barons 2 Philip Gravel Urban Knaves 3 Chuck Bagi Traditional Mead & Braggot 1 Marc Kullberg Chi Beer Soc 2 Al Korzonas Chi Beer Soc 3 Randy Johnson Fruit & Vegetable Mead 1 Hal Buttermore Ann Arbor 2 Marc Kullberg Chi Beer Soc 3 Robb Harris First Draft Herb & Spice Mead 1 Robb Harris First Draft 2 Daria Labinsky, Stan Hieronymus Abnormal 3 Eric Drake, J. Woody Drake Scioto ... ------------------------------ From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:10:10 -0700 Subject: BJCP Scoresheets Hi all, A few months ago some people were discussing ideas for a new BJCP score sheet. It would allow for a broader range of scores. From the looks of it, this new system is going to be quite an improvement over the old. My questions: where are these new sheets? Has any body used them yet? If they are not in use, why not? I hate to see a good idea go unused! Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) ------------------------------ From: Dion Hollenbeck Date: 23 May 1997 08:00:56 -0700 Subject: Re: Mis-categorizing entries >> Keith Chamberlin writes: [...what can be done about wrong categories...] As an organizer, here is how *we* handle it. If we catch an obviously wrong category on checkin, we call the brewer and make every effort to contact the brewer and get it entered in the right category. This is only possible if it is something like a black beer entered as a light lager, or vice versa. Only of the color is absolutely wrong, do we have the opportunity to catch mistakes. On the day of judging, the judges should ask if something is obviously wrong and we then go back to the paperwork and verify that the beer is being judged in the category that the brewer entered it in. If the brewer put it in the wrong category, that is tough. It is the brewer's responsibility to choose categories. If we have made a screwup and gotten it in a category that the brewer did not specify, then we will move it around. We have had several mistaken categories, and in every case so far, the brewer chose that category. Too bad! dion Organizer America's Finest City Homebrew Competition March 8, 1997 Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity, Sponsor http://www.vigra.com/~hollen/AFCHBC.html - --- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California ------------------------------ From: Dion Hollenbeck Date: 23 May 1997 08:10:20 -0700 Subject: Re: Wrong Categories >> Houseman, David L writes: HDL> Of course the organizers should NOT have taken it upon themselves HDL> to re-categorize any beer although combining categories in HDL> flights would have been legit. I should have added this as well. I agree with David that as much as we try to get the brewer to change a category if we determine at checkin it is plain wrong, the organizers should *NEVER* take it upon themselves to change a category without the express direction of the brewer. This not only leaves the organizers open to making an error, as in David's example, but also leaves open a gaping hole that could leave the integrity of the competition in question (vindictive change of category to get a beer to fail comes to mind as a possibility, however remote it may seem). dion Organizer America's Finest City Homebrew Competition March 8, 1997 Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity, Sponsor http://www.vigra.com/~hollen/AFCHBC.html - --- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California ------------------------------ From: hollen at axel.vigra.com Date: 23 May 1997 08:27:19 -0700 Subject: Re: Mis-Categorizing Styles >> MaltyDog writes: M> I don't know how widely done this is, but it seems helpful to M> me. Sometimes people make mistakes when they enter, sometimes they M> are not familiar enough with the style, sometimes they beer they M> made ended up differently then it was planned, but does fit into M> another style. In those cases, to suggest to them they should try M> entering in another category seems reasonable. Not only reasonable, but IMHO, our duty!! Except for a small percentage of egomaniacs, brewers enter competitions for feedback, and this particular type of feedback may be one of the most useful comments we can make. Just last week at the Nationals first round, I judged an Americal Pale Ale that I gave a 25 because as an APA, it was horribly out of style. But my comments in Overall went something like this: Nice clean beer completely out of style. Had I judged this last night in the Vienna category, it would have had a chance at placing. This kind of feed back is valuable to the brewer for two reasons. One, because he can now see what to do with this beer, in this case, just change categories. And two, because I slammed it above for being wrong in many of the basic parameters of the style, but he needed to know that his problem is not in his brewing technique, but in his ability to evaluate a proper category. He needed a pat on the back for producing a fine beer, to keep him entering competitions. I think encouragement along with criticism is very important. dion Organizer America's Finest City Homebrew Competition March 8, 1997 Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity, Sponsor http://www.vigra.com/~hollen/AFCHBC.html - --- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California ------------------------------ From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 08:51:37 -0700 Subject: RE: Citrusy hops / Wheat flavor Hi all, Paul Edwards asks about hops giving beers a citrusy character. He wonders if only Cascades can do this. In my experience, many hops can lend a citrusy character to beer. I have brewed beers with nothing but Germanic hops and achieved citrusy character (much to my chagrin). In one case, a highly hopped wort was split, with a different *lager* yeast fermenting each batch (at below 50F (10C)). One came out citrusy, the other did not. It would appear that many different variables are at work. I wish I knew them all! The bottom line: just because it's citrusy doesn't mean it's Cascade hops! I have a question: what exactly is "wheat flavor?" I really don't understand when people say that a beer doesn't have enough wheat flavor. To my palate, wheat is really a flavor lightening adjunct that happens to be OK with the Reinheitsgebot. That is why American wheat beers are so light tasting, despite the fact that they may be all malt. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) ------------------------------ From: Jim Cave Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 9:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Vancouver International Amateur Brewers Competition The Royal Canadian Malted Patrol will be hosting Vancouver International Amateur Brewer's Competition on Saturday June 21st 1997. The Competition will be held in conjunction with the Vancouver International Micro Brewer's Festival. Naturally, we will be looking for qualified beer judges to sample and rate what we hope will be a quality showing of beers! This year we hope for 125-150 entries. I would like to take this opportunity to invite you to judge with us this year. Judges will receive a compliment- ary admission to the beer fesitival. Please RSVP if you can attend. Ideally we would like 30 qualified judges to attend. During the evening of June 21st, we will have a banquet at Sailor Hagars Brew Pub, which the judges are most welcome to attend. Sailor Hagars has put on a couple of banquets for homebrewers in Vancouver and the food and especially the beer has been most excellent. There is some limitation as to the number of Banquet tickets so please RSVP as soon as possible to avoid disappointment. Please arrive between 08:30-09:15. Judging will begin at 09:30 Saturday June 21st at the beer festival site, the Plaza of Nations, on Pacific Avenue, S.E. of B.C. Place Stadium, Vancouver B.C. Parking will be expensive, so Carpool-it if possible. We will have 10 categories: 1) American Ales 2) English Ales 3) Wheat and German Ales 4) Dark Beers (Porters, Stouts and Browns) 5) Light Lagers 6) Dark Lagers 7) Belgians 8) Strong Beers 9) Specialty (Fruit, Smoked and cider) 10) Specialty (Spiced, Sake and Meads). Categories may be resorted if necessary. If you would like to enter beers, the closing for entries is June 14th and cost is $5 and 2 bottles of beer! Please mark entry with style/sub- style (BJCP or AHA) as well as VIABC category. Entries can be delivered to Spagnols (1325 Derwent Way, New Westminster, B.C. V3M 5V9) and at other selected locations (we have a U.S. mailing site this year). Please call Russ Morris for details (604-526-2573, SLIDES at UNIXG.UBC.CA) about entries and drop-off locations, or myself Jim Cave, (days 604-684-8081, eves 987-8262, CAVE at PSC.ORG) for judging arrangements. Thank you! Jim Cave ------------------------------ From: Jeremy Bergsman Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 15:24:20 -0700 Subject: legibility on the exam Scott wonders why there is an idea that legibility is explicitly scored on the BJCP exam. I actually thought this too, based on the following JD post: > From: Scott Bickham > Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 08:11:41 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: Re: Tasting portion of the exam > > jdecarlo at mail04.mitre.org (John A. DeCarlo) asked: > > > 1) What is the break-down of grading the tasting portion? > > As you know, the tasting portion of the exam is worth 30% of the total > score. The tasting portion itself is broken down as follows: > > Scoring: 20% > Beer 1: 20% > Beer 2: 20% > Beer 3: 20% > Beer 4: 20% > > The scoring of the four beers is split evenly between perception, > descriptive ability, feedback and communication (readability and > completeness). This makes it sound like readability and completeness account for 1/3 of 80% of the tasting portion. (I'm assume feedback and communication is one item.) This works out to 8% of the total score. - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb ------------------------------ From: CTERENZI at aol.com Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 19:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: NHC Results-Southeast The results of the Southeastern leg of the National Homebrew Competition can be found at the Covert Hops Society Web site at : www.coverthops.com Has anyone posted the results from the other regions? Results and scoresheets have been sent to the AHA for distribution so please do not e-mail requesting your personal score. Thanks. Chris Terenzi NHC Co-Organizer ------------------------------ End of judge-digest V1 #1445 **************************** Send subscription cancellations & changes to judge-request at synchro.com. Messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored.