Return-Path: owner-judge at synchro.com Received: from srvr7.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr7.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.69]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04724 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 12:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (0 at judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.37]) by srvr7.engin.umich.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA06521 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 12:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.2) with X.500 id MAA01420; Sun, 4 May 1997 12:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uu6.psi.com by judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.2) with SMTP id MAA01416; Sun, 4 May 1997 12:47:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA20157 for spencer at umich.edu; Sun, 4 May 97 12:47:24 -0400 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by synchro.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA24226 for judge-digest-outgoing; Sun, 4 May 1997 12:07:33 -0400 Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 12:07:33 -0400 Message-Id: <199705041607.MAA24226 at synchro.com> From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com To: judge-digest at synchro.com Subject: judge-digest V1 #1433 Reply-To: judge at synchro.com Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com Precedence: bulk judge-digest Sunday, 4 May 1997 Volume 01 : Number 1433 ============================================================================ J u d g e N e t - t h e b e e r j u d g e d i g e s t ============================================================================ Moderator: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publisher: SynchroSystems Submissions: judge at synchro.com Subscriptions: judge-request at synchro.com Archive: http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge BJCP info: geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com ============================================================================ contents: Schwarzbier Steam Beer-Still More Re: Schwarzbier REMINDER and Call for JUDGES!!! Big and HUGE competition ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Hersh aka Dr. Beer (SM)" Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Schwarzbier glad to hear this is available near you. The Kostritzer is the one Jackson actually uses as a benchmark for the style. I have obtained this beer once here in the U.S., and at least twice in Germany and performed side by side tastings of this with beers such as Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel (a beer that myself and many others consider a good benchmark for the Dunkel style) and find,*in my opinion*, that there was no appreciable stylistic difference between these beers. So I still maintain that when it comes to style guidelines the fundamental question regarding Schwarzbier is that based on what appears to me at present to be sketchy historical justification does this merit a separate distinct substyle from Dunkel, or should the two be grouped as a single style with no differentiation between them which more accurately reflects the current market realities of this naming convention? My present opinion is the latter, but I'm open to other arguments especially if they are backed by historical research. Jay >From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) >Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 10:04:39 -0700 >Subject: Schwarzbier > > Hi all, > > It was said in the last digest that there are no examples of > Schwarzbier available in the Northeastern U.S. This is untrue. > Kostritzer Schwarzbier is easily available in the NY metro area. It > is only one example of the style, so it shouldn't be used as an > absolute benchmark, but it is there for the tasting. > > Have fun! > > George De Piro (Nyack, NY) > - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalt's This is a key free document, no keyboards were harmed in its creation. (The DragonDictate speech recognition system, the CIC handwriting recognizer, or some combination was used.) ------------------------------ From: popeman at webtv.net (Tom Pope) Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 07:45:09 -0700 Subject: Steam Beer-Still More I was going over some style guidelines for Steam Beer or California Common Beer. I noted the following, with reference to levels of desired hop flavor and aroma:1.) Ca. State Homebrew Club Championships;Steam Beer- Low hop flavor and aroma. 2.) Ca. State Fair;Steam Beer-Hopping rates are high, predominance of Northern Brewer hops in aroma and flavor. 3.)AHA;California Common Beer- Hop flavor medium to high, aroma medium. 4.) Mayfaire;California Common Beer- Substantial hop bitterness. Fruity,yeasty,citric aroma and flavor.(No specific mention of "levels" of hop flavor and aroma. I don't have the BJCP description,(I'm currently browser-challenged), but I would imagine they are also somewhat unique. It seems as though this style is not consistently defined, and the end result can of course be that the same beer entered in different competitions will receive vastly different scores and comments based solely on the difference in the style guidelines for each competition. Other variables can also affect the outcome, of course, but even in a perfect world where all beer judges were omniscient it would be impossible to receive the same feedback on the same beer entered in each of the above competitions. Does this mean that the entrant should only enter this category if his version of this style happens to match that of the competition he is entering? Or perhaps he should design a beer for each separate competition that fits the description given? I just am curious what the other judges out there are thinking..So much for beating this dead horse, Tom Pope ------------------------------ From: Dion Hollenbeck Date: 02 May 1997 08:32:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Schwarzbier >> George De Piro writes: GDP> It was said in the last digest that there are no examples of GDP> Schwarzbier available in the Northeastern U.S. This is untrue. GDP> Kostritzer Schwarzbier is easily available in the NY metro area. That's it!! Was trying to remember which Schwarzbier I had bought. It is also available in San Diego, CA in my local Lucky supermarket of all places. dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California ------------------------------ From: Robert Paolino Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:08:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: REMINDER and Call for JUDGES!!! Big and HUGE competition Competition reminder and Call for Judges! 11th Annual Big and Huge Homebrew Competition Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild 10 May 1997, 10am-4pm, Great Dane Pub and Brewing Company Madison, Wisconsin The Big and Huge is a competition for higher-gravity beers (1.050-1.060 is "Big"; >1.060 is "Huge"). Entries will be accepted in all BJCP style categories for which the original gravity range includes 1.050 or higher. The gravity restriction excludes relatively few sub-categories, although 1.050 is the top of the range for some categories, and entries must meet the minimum gravity requirement even if the range for the style dips below the 1.050 mark. (We had to disqualify an entry last year because it was an entry in an eligible style but not an eligible original gravity.) Awards will be made in all styles (or combined style groupings) for which there are at least five entries. Winners from the style categories can advance to a "mini-BOS" Big and Huge round (Big Ales, Huge Ales, Big Lagers, Huge Lagers) for additional ribbons and prizes, and the best of the Big and Huge round advance to Best of Show. Brewing ingredient prizes have been generously donated by Northwestern, L.D. Carlson, and HopUnion USA. (There may be additional prizes available between now and the Huge day.) Entries are due in Madison May 7. Out of town judges who PREREGISTER their entries may bring the bottles with them Saturday morning. Homebrew clubs with which we exchange newsletters have received forms--ask your club liaison for a copy. If you need complete rules and entry forms, you may contact me (rpaolino at earth.execpc.com) for an emailed file or you may visit our new (and still sparse) web site: http://www.globaldialog.com/madbrewers to download forms. (if they're not there when you visit, email to me and I'll get them to you--and remind our webmaster to get the forms on. (The web page does have information about the 11th Annual Great Taste of the Midwest, for which tickets went on sale May 1 and will sell quickly.) JUDGES!! Come to Madison to help judge some big-hearted beers, enjoy beerful hospitality, and visit the city's three brewpubs or tour one of the many small breweries in the area. Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino rpaolino at earth.execpc.com Madison ------------------------------ End of judge-digest V1 #1433 **************************** Send subscription cancellations & changes to judge-request at synchro.com. Messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored.