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From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com
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Subject:   judge-digest V1 #1431
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judge-digest                Thursday, 1 May 1997        Volume 01 : Number 1431

 ============================================================================
       J u d g e N e t   -   t h e   b e e r   j u d g e   d i g e s t
 ============================================================================

 Moderator:        Chuck Cox          <chuck at synchro.com>
 Archivist:        Spencer Thomas     <spencer at umich.edu>
 Publisher:        SynchroSystems     <info at synchro.com>

 Submissions:      judge at synchro.com
 Subscriptions:    judge-request at synchro.com
 Archive:          http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge
 BJCP info:        geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com

 ============================================================================
 contents:

 schwarzbier
 A Quick Correction
 knowlege of styles
 generalizations
 Ladies and Gentlemen, start your bottle fillers
 Steam, aka Calif. Common Beer
 Alt Beers / Wheat beers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jay Hersh aka Dr. Beer (SM)" <drbeer at doctorbeer.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:07:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: schwarzbier

>From: DENNIS WALTMAN <PDWALTMAN at sablaw.com>
>Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:23:25 -0400
>Subject: Schwartzbier
>
>
>Are there a lot of commercial examples of Schwartzbier (available in
>the U.S.)?  Do you have suggestions for someone wanting to try a
>commerical example of the beer.
>

I don't know of any currently available here in the Northeast where we
typically have access to a pretty wide variety of imported beers and have
seen Im Fuschen Alt, AEcht Shlenkerla, Rauchenfels Steinbier among other
more obscure German beers.

I have researched extensively and written on Dunkel beer.  I have tasted
approximately 8 different beers during my travels in Germany over the last
five years which call themselves Scwarzbier and have found that no beers
calling themselves this today differ appreciably from the "Munich" Dunkel
(which I prefer to refer to as Bavarian Dunkel since it is also brewed
throughout other parts of Bavaria).

I did briefly discuss this opinion with Michael Jackson while he was in town
last year for the craft brewer's conference and he seemed to agree with my
assertion that this was now more a marketing name than a distinct style.  I
have no historical information among any of my German language materials on
Kulmbach ( home of Kulmbacher Monchshof Schwarzbier) or the region around
Bad Kostritz ( home of Kostritzer Schwarzbier) which sheds any light on the
historical background of this style.  The AHA guidelines, which seem to have
some corroboration in the section on this style in Jackson's Beer Companion,
claim it is a lager counterpart to Porter or stout but I haven't been able
to find anything in my research, which doesn't mean this isn't so, just that
if there is historical information it is more obscure than that available on
Weisse bier or Dunkel.


                          Jay


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalt's

This is a key free document, no keyboards were harmed in its creation.
(The DragonDictate speech recognition system, the CIC handwriting
recognizer, or some combination was used.)


------------------------------

From: MaltyDog at aol.com
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:20:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: A Quick Correction

I just want to correct a typographical error that occured in my post 
in #1430. I said I made an Imperial Stout with a starting gravity of
1.011. I meant to say 1.111. If it had started at 1.011, it certainly 
would have been too thin for style!

Bill Coleman
MaltyDog at aol.com

------------------------------

From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:24:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: knowlege of styles

Bill Coleman (MaltyDog at aol.com) writes:
>He [George de Piro] points out that they [some judges] are at 
>times strictly using style guidelines
>rather than a knowledge they don't have; I think it is more than
>that; I think that in some cases, judges have no real knowledge of
>commercial versions of a style they are judging, and are strictly
>comparing the beers to other homebrewed attempts they may
>have had, whether they fit the style or not. I think there is a lot of
>real ignorance about beer styles out there.

I would agree, but I don't think it is reasonable to expect all judges
to have been to Bavaria, Dusseldorf, Vienna etc.  I think one of 
the arts of running a competition is to match the judges with the
styles they are good at.  Not an easy task, but it does require some
time and effort.

He also comments about a group of judges with, apparently, the "bigger
is better" attitude.  This problem is a difficult one to deal with, and
we've discussed it before.  After participating in this group, I make
a conscious effort to watch for this and other problems.  

****
Tom Pope defends the judging of Steam beers. 
> ....  So again
>the issue of judge knowledge versus category descriptions comes up, with
>a slightly different twist. We have a category which has only one
>commercial example, and we seem to have a description in this particular
>contest which pretty much describes Anchor Steam, and not necessarily
>the broader spectrum of historical California Common Beers.

I would add that, keep in mind the competition is the California
State Homebrew competition and it is judged in San Francisco.
Entrants must be in a California homebrew club, and almost
everyone who brews in California can easily get fresh Anchor
Steam, in bottles or draught.

  - Bryan Gros
    grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
    Music City Brewers, Nashville TN


------------------------------

From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:20:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: generalizations

David discusses Alts and Weissbiers:

<Zum Uerige is an excellent Altbier, but it is, as is implied, just about
<the most bitter and astringent Altbier out there.

Definetly bitter but an amazingly clean pleasent bitterness.  I dont
think Id call it astringent.  One of the keys of Altbiers is pleasing
bitterness with just the right malt foundation.  I dont think Alts
are made with the normal malts we typically use and this is a real
key to reducing astringency.

<The other thread of late was Weizenbier.  A German Weizen is just plain
<different than any wheat beer I have had that was produced in an American
<micro-brewery.  I have brewed a wheat from a kit that seemed really close,
<though.  (Wish I could take more credit, but it was a kit...)  No, the
<American brews do not seem to have the clove or banana that is
<characteristic of a Bavarian Weizen.  The question as to the balance of
<flavors:  it seems to me that the German balance was more clove than
<banana, but that varied from brand to brand. 

Several micros are doing it right in the US.  I have had fantastic
examples from Baltimore Brewing Co (Theo DeGroen is a Diplom Braumeister
from Weihenstephan, actually he has the Engineers Diplom which is even
more impressive), Old Dominion Brewing (where Ron Barchet brewed some
great Summer Wheats, aka Bavarian Weiss), Victory Brewing (where Ron
Barchet and Bill Covaleski, both former brewers for Baltimore, brew
an incredibly authentic version with fresh Weihenstephan 68 from the
hefebank and Bamberg malts), and of course Tabernash (where Eric 
Warner brews and he is also a Diplom from Weihenstephan).  I am 
currently working on my second pilot for this years Sunrise Weiss
from Victory and growing fresh yeast from the Weihenstephan hefebank.
David Brockington rated last years Sunrise a 5/5, see:
http://alpha.rollanet.org/taproom/DBindex.html

It can and is being done in the US but as was noted you need to be
very careful with the yeast source and handling as well as with
fermentation temperatures.  Open fermenters help too.  This is a 
great time of year to relax on the hammock after some yard work,
pour a large Weissbier and take in the sun!

Prost!

Jim Busch

------------------------------

From: "Roger Deschner  " <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:24:01 CDT
Subject: Ladies and Gentlemen, start your bottle fillers

...and don't get any on your ceiling, like my own counterpressure filler
often does.

The entry window for the National Homebrew Competition is now open.
Please pardon the cross-posting.

The most frequently asked question so far: NO, you may not bring your
entry with you on competition day if you are also judging. Actual entries
must be received at the competition site by FRIDAY MAY 9, 5:00PM.

The second most frequently asked question is about entry forms. See the
official rules and get the entry form in ZYMURGY, or at
http://www.aob.org/rules.html. This web page tells you which site to send
your entry to, based on where you live. If you don't have web access,
call the phone number below, and they'll fax it to you. There are NO
blank entry forms at the contest sites, and entry fees may not be paid in
cash.

A time-saving tip if you are entering multiple beers: fill out everything
in Section A, photocopy it, and then fill out Section B for each separate
beer on the copies.

In the Chicago Region (KY IL ME MI NH OH VT WI), we are DISCOURAGING
drop-off entries. There is a time and place for that: The monthly Chicago
Beer Society meeting, Thursday May 1, Goose Island Brewpub, 7:30PM, or
the monthly meetings of Brewers of South Suburbia, or Urban Knaves of
Grain. Other homebrew clubs which want to collect all club entries into a
single box and ship or deliver it all at once are encouraged to do so;
this makes unpacking much faster. Please contact the organizers for your
region for any special arrangements needed, such as delivering your
club's collected entries in person. (For the Chicago Region (KY IL ME MI
NH OH VT WI) contact Brad Reeg at Reegleyj at AOL.COM to make these
arrangements.)

In our experience, shipped entries are actually SAFER, but if you still
feel like you must drop off your entry at the site, pack it as though you
were shipping it, except for padding materials of course. It should still
be in some kind of SEALED BOX, complete with an address label. Beware
that the Chicago Region site is Goose Island MICROBREWERY, at 1800 W.
Fulton, not Goose Island BREWPUB on Clybourn. Entries left at the
Clybourn location (except for the CBS meeting on May 1) are at the high
risk of being lost.

Please be kind to your volunteer unpackers. NO LOOSE FOAM PEANUTS! (Last
year, one imaginative brewer packed the foam peanuts in plastic zip-lock
sandwich bags. This is definitely OK.) Good packing materials include
beer-of-the-month-club containers, bubble pack, crumpled newspaper. Old
socks are frequently used to keep bottles from clinking together, for
some demented reason, although rolling them in newspaper works just as
well. See the web page above for more packing tips. Rubber band the form
for each entry to each bottle. DO NOT USE TAPE - YOUR ENTRY WILL BE
DISQUALIFIED IF THE FORM IS TAPED TO THE BOTTLE!  WE ARE STRICTLY
ENFORCING THIS RULE.

You CAN ask us to send your shipping container back, if you include
the shipping charges in your check, or if you will be at the competition
itself to retrieve it. Some brewers have elaborate padded wooden cases
that they use over and over. This is the ultimate in "recycling".

A mistake which some brewers have made in the past is to lose track of
which bottle is which type of beer, as they are packing their box. Make
sure you keep track until the moment that you rubber-band the form to the
bottle. Your prize American Wheat will score VERY poorly as a Mead, and
there is no way to tell them apart by color.

In the CHICAGO REGION ONLY, if you are unable to black out the caps as
specified in the rules, don't worry about it. We will be placing a
sticker over the whole cap as we unpack it, which will meet the rule's
intent that any markings on the cap be invisible to the judges.

Some tips on deciding which style to call your beer: Pick the style
carefully - one of the prime criteria used by judges is how well your
beer fits whatever style you designate; judges will not guess the style
for you. If it has fruit or any other kinky ingredients, enter it as a
"Fruit" or "Specialty" beer, and write its style (e.g. Weiss, Porter,
etc.) in the "Classic Style" space on the form; this is better than
entering it into the classic style category, where the judges will NOT be
told about the special ingredient, and will say, "Hmmm. Very odd
defective fruity taste for this style. Low score."

Although green bottles are legal, the same beer in brown bottles may
score higher with some judges. Please don't belabor this controversial
observation with me - it's your entry, your possible win, and I'm just
the messenger, so no shooting please.

Fill out your form in BALL POINT PEN (no felt-tip or fountain pen)
because if one of your bottles breaks in shipment, your forms will be
soaked. This also means it is a poor idea to print the blank form on an
ink-jet computer printer; laser printed or photocopied forms will be
beerproof. In case of a broken bottle, the unpackers will immediately
contact you by e-mail or telephone to send another. If you have bottles
of different types available, the old-fashioned deposit-type long neck
bottles are the strongest. Write legibly - somebody (me!) has to type
that information into a computer.

YOU COULD WIN! Make sure you bottle more bottles of the same beers at the
same time, and store them under refrigeration to prevent any flavor
changes between the first and second rounds.

And finally, Frequent Mistake Number 3: Don't forget the check, as I
myself did once!

QUESTIONS: Web: http://www.aob.org/rules.html
           Phone: 303-447-0816
           Fax: 303-447-2825
           Email: aha at aob.org

QUESTIONS SPECIFIC TO THE CHICAGO REGION: Email rogerd at uic.edu

Roger Deschner      University of Illinois at Chicago     rogerd at uic.edu
Aliases:                  u52983 at uicvm.uic.edu        R.Deschner at uic.edu
================Organizer, NHC Chicago Region First Round===============

------------------------------

From: jobybp at metro.net (Byron Burch)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:40:16 -0700
Subject: Steam, aka Calif. Common Beer

        There have recently been some comments made about the California
Common category, and that it shouldn't be a lookalike category. The answer
to that is that it always has been. This is not at all like the Altbier
situation.
        As I recall, in the early days of homebrew judgings, all
competitions I know of called it the "Steam Beer" class. As nobody living
(as far as we knew) could remember steam beers other than Anchor's version,
it was understood that Anchor was always the standard. I remember a bottle
of Anchor being placed on the judging table at the AHA Nationals at least
one year in the early eighties.
        The confusion began when Anchor Brewing Co. decided to try and
defend "Steam Beer" as their private trademark. Fritz Maytag is a
delightful gentleman, a "class act," and he has contributed to our hobby in
a major way, Understandably, no one wanted to offend him, so we all backed
away from the term, "steam beer," and searched for other options. As I
recall, one early attempt was something like "Bomferd Ale," which I believe
was short for "bottom fermented ale," but that one quickly, and mercifully,
fell into disuse.
        The problem is that, originally, the term "steam beer" probably
designated a process, rather than a style. It referred to steam fired
breweries, which were good examples of 19th century high tech, and
therefore worth bragging about. For instance, Anchor Steam Beer, prior to
the Maytag ownership, was nothing like it is now. As I recall, there is at
least one surviving "Steam Beer" in England, and at least one "Dampfbier"
in Germany. One book on 19th century brewing claimed there were once 100
steam breweries in California, and 30 in San Francisco alone. I suspect
that most of these beers were hardly carbon copies of each other, though, a
century later, its difficult to be certain.
        The answer may lie in rethinking the entire concept of the Calif.
Common "style." If we are unhappy with the idea of a lookalike class, this
class should really be folded in as a subcategory under the American Pale
class. Being fermented with bottom yeast hardly makes it unique in the
modern world of ales.
        I make this suggestion even though this is a style I like to brew.
I try to make my own version of Anchor (Hi there, Fritz) at least once or
twice a year, and I've been known to buy a few in between batches. I'm fond
of Anchor. It's just that I've always felt it to be most at home nestled
among the pale ales, rather than the sole exemplar of its own unique style.
                                Cheers,
                                Byron Burch

------------------------------

From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:26:40 -0700
Subject: Alt Beers / Wheat beers

     Hi all,
     
     In the current discussion about the "bench mark" for altbier, one 
     thing has not been mentioned:  many contests actually do split it into 
     2 subcategories, Duessuldorf and North German.  The North German 
     version is the less bitter, mass-marketed style.
     
     Of course, this can still be ignored by the judges.  I recently 
     entered two altbiers into a local contest.  They were actually the 
     same beer, with hop tea added to part of the batch to increase its 
     bitterness.  I entered the less bitter version as a North German alt, 
     the other as a Duesseldorf Alt.
     
     I could understand the judges saying the D-alt needed to be more 
     bitter (actually, I thought it was fine, but what the heck, it wasn't 
     Uerige).  They said the same of the North German one, though.  They 
     were unaware of the difference between the two substyles, I believe.
     
     Again, it comes down to style knowledge.  As long as we are all aware 
     that there is a broad range within this style, we should be able to do 
     a fair judging job.
     
     I agree with the recent comment that a wheat beer should be balanced 
     as far as esters and phenols are concerned.  I didn't mean to say that 
     there should be no esters in a good Weizen, but that they shouldn't be 
     too prominent.  Without the banana, the beer seems one-dimensional 
     (which is sort of what I've achieved on my last batch).
     
     It just seems to me that some people expect to get clubbed in the head 
     by a bunch of bananas, and anything short of that is not rated well.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

------------------------------

End of judge-digest V1 #1431
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