Return-Path: owner-judge at synchro.com Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.26]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA04851 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:04:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (0 at redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.36]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07485 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.2) with X.500 id JAA10386; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:04:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uu6.psi.com by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.2) with SMTP id JAA10363; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA22952 for spencer at umich.edu; Thu, 24 Apr 97 09:03:36 -0400 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by synchro.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA15070 for judge-digest-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:34:22 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:34:22 -0400 Message-Id: <199704241234.IAA15070 at synchro.com> From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com To: judge-digest at synchro.com Subject: judge-digest V1 #1428 Reply-To: judge at synchro.com Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com Precedence: bulk judge-digest Thursday, 24 April 1997 Volume 01 : Number 1428 ============================================================================ J u d g e N e t - t h e b e e r j u d g e d i g e s t ============================================================================ Moderator: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publisher: SynchroSystems Submissions: judge at synchro.com Subscriptions: judge-request at synchro.com Archive: http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge BJCP info: geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com ============================================================================ contents: RE: Secret recipe / body of wheat beer Bavarian Wheat Beers Anchor Steam as a standard I've Got the Uerige ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:04:14 -0700 Subject: RE: Secret recipe / body of wheat beer Hi all, This isn't quite to topic (judging), but in the last JudgeNet Michael R. Lentz wrote, regarding the porter/stout/whatever recipe that John posted: "The mollases and brown sugar would contribute to body and sweetness appropriate in an Old Ale." Seeing as the sugars mentioned are completely fermentable, they would not add sweetness. In fact, they will contribute to a dry finish (wine-like if taken to an extreme). They will not add body, either, lacking both proteins and unfermentables. The line between stout and porter can be so fine that it is hard to tell the two apart. Many brewers define stout by the presence of roasted barley, but the use black patent and chocolate malts can yield a similar flavor. Just looking at the recipe, I'd say that it could fit robust porter pretty well, but I can see how one could argue for stout. The sugars will dry the finish in a dry stout-like fashion. --------------------- Jeremy asks about the body of American wheat beers, and if it is possible to control it by mash schedule. Most American wheat beers are light in body (and lighter in flavor), and yes, that can be controlled by mash schedule. A series of protein rests at 113-122-135F can be used to create a headless, bodiless, brew! Another factor could be that there might often be less wheat in American wheat beers than their Bavarian counterparts. I could be wrong, but I've got a feeling that most small breweries and brewpubs are not equipped to lauter (and later filter) a >50% wheat beer. Less wheat means less protein, hence the potential for a lighter-bodied beer. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) ------------------------------ From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:58:05 -0700 Subject: Bavarian Wheat Beers Hi all, This post fits well with the "judging strictly by the guidelines" thread. Why is it that many judges seem to think Bavarian Weizen should smell and taste like a banana plantation? In recent months I have been struggling to produce a wheat beer with minimal banana esters, but plenty of clove and vanilla. It is my opinion that the best and most elegant German Weizens DO NOT smell like banana farms! If you don't believe me, please try a bottle of Schneider Weisse, Spaten Franziskaner, or even the Weihenstephen Weizen. They are not as estery as most homebrewed Weizen. The Schneider, especially, is rich with vanilla and clove. Happily, I have succeeded in producing a low ester, high phenol and vanilla Weizen with Wyeast 3068. Unfortunately, it would seem that many judges don't agree that a Weizen can be anything less than a monkey's dream! They deduct many points because the banana is too subdued (it is there, they say, but not strong enough). More than one judge has commented in this way. It is very easy to produce banana and bubblegum homebrew with Wyeast 3068 (a very commonly used Weizen strain), but there are few classic commercial examples that taste like that. I believe that it is important to compare home brews to commercial examples, not just the style guidelines. This is especailly true in a style like Bavarian Weizen, where commercial examples are plentiful, and there are differences between them. I guess this means that I side with those who will use their own knowledge of a style, rather than the guidelines, when passing final judgement. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) ------------------------------ From: "Thomas, Andrew R" Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 18:27:27 -0500 Subject: Anchor Steam as a standard Right off the bat, I cant think of another beer category other than Cal. common which has one beer only as a standard. When you think of helles, you think of Paulaner, Spaten, Augustiner, etc and they are all different. When you think of a category like APA these days, it gets to be a much wider spread. With all due respect to Fritz and the wonderful guys like Tim Herring brewing at Anchor, it makes for a very narrow style indeed if a hombrewed competition beer can only be compared to one beer. Guess what, they will always be different. I read with disappointment the recent account of the contest beers which were subjected to the tough comparison to a one-day-old anchor and then summarily dispatched. You have to, as a judge, consider the fact that you are dealing with essentially a one standard category. Anyone who is that tough should do some reading about the other old steam breweries that used to co-exist with anchor on the west coast. I bet they all were not just like our modern day example of a steam beer either. i have found in the past that people who were these "kamikaze" type judges who bounce beers and write unfriendly things are often inexperienced or insecure about their own knowledge somehow....could it be that they actually arent as good as they think they are? Hmmmm. Somehow they feel smarter if they boot beers out the window. People, can we all lighten up? andy thomas ------------------------------ From: jeff at edm.ca (Jeff Pinhey) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:20:01 -0400 Subject: I've Got the Uerige I just got my hands on a fresh bottle direct from the establishment, of Uerige Alt. This is right off the plane from Dusseldorf. I have never had this beer, and will be sharing it Sunday with another judge. MJ says good things about it. My question is this - should we be considering this beer as a target for alt biers (the Nirvana of Alt etc.)? The idea of where a 45 plus score would be appropriate etc. etc. etc.?? My previous altbier experience includes one of a name I can't remember while in Germany, Bottled Hannen, Brewpub versions in Boston and Toronto, Magnotta (Ontario), several home brews, including one of Mike Ligas' who now makes the style for Magnotta, Sam Adams Stock Ale (well, someone once gave it first prize in the GABF Alt Category!), and an Alt made by Harpoon in Boston which I liked. I currently would not offer myself up to judge this category, but intend to start making them and being able to do a good job judging them. This is to be a start. Al, are you listening? If I cloned Uerige would you give me a 50? ####################################################### Jeff Pinhey, Halifax, Nova Scotia ------------------------------ End of judge-digest V1 #1428 **************************** Send subscription cancellations & changes to judge-request at synchro.com. Messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored.