Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:47:49 -0400
Message-Id: <199704161247.IAA15950 at synchro.com>
From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com
To: judge-digest at synchro.com
Subject:   judge-digest V1 #1423
Reply-To: judge at synchro.com
Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com
Precedence: bulk


judge-digest              Wednesday, 16 April 1997      Volume 01 : Number 1423

 ============================================================================
       J u d g e N e t   -   t h e   b e e r   j u d g e   d i g e s t
 ============================================================================

 Moderator:        Chuck Cox          <chuck at synchro.com>
 Archivist:        Spencer Thomas     <spencer at umich.edu>
 Publisher:        SynchroSystems     <info at synchro.com>

 Submissions:      judge at synchro.com
 Subscriptions:    judge-request at synchro.com
 Archive:          http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge
 BJCP info:        geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com

 ============================================================================
 contents:

 CALL For Judges -- 1997 BUZZ Off!
 judging to style: Belgian Strong ale
 Re: Spices in Belgian Strong ale
 Re: judging points
 Spices in Belgian Strong Ales
 Privacy
 ANNOUNCE: Delaware Homebrew Competition

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert.MATTIE at sb.com
Date: 15 Apr 97 08:49:09 -0400
Subject: CALL For Judges -- 1997 BUZZ Off!

     CALL For Judges!
     =

        1997 BUZZ Off
        June 22, 1997
     =

     The Fourth Annual BUZZ Off is looking for Judges!  The 1997 BUZZ Off=
 =

     will be held at Victory Brewing Company in Downingtown, PA.   We wil=
l =

     be judging all homebrewed Beer, Mead, and Cider. This competition is=
 =

     sanctioned by the AHA and the BJCP.  =

     =

     Information about the BUZZ Off is available at the BUZZ Off Web Page=
 =

     at: =

        http://www.voicenet.com/=AFrpmattie/buzzoff
     =

     note: the character in front of rpmattie is the tilde character (not=
 =

     an underscore, some mailers convert argh!!!!!)
      =

     If you are interested in receiving a competition entry packet via US=
 =

     Mail, please contact via phone or e-mail.
     =

     For more information check the Web Page or contact: =

     =

     Robert Mattie              David Houseman
     (610) 873-6607             (610) 458-0743
     robert.mattie at sb.com       david.houseman at unisys.com


------------------------------

From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:37:13 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: judging to style: Belgian Strong ale

 Jim Cave <CAVE at PSC.ORG> writes:
>	Al Korzonas in the HBD, commented about the presence of spices in 
>Strong Belgian Ales, further noting that the AHA guidelines do not indicate 
>presence of spices.  Do any of you have any comment on whether you would
>find this acceptable if you discovered such a beer in the NHC this year?
>Would you adjust your score (downwards) if you detected what may be an 
>appropriate level of spice, in consideration of the AHA style guidelines, even
>though the beer may be a ringer for McChouffe?  Would such a beer more 
>appropriately be placed in the spiced ale category?  

This is a basic question of judging.  As I understand, ideally a judge will
put aside his or her notions of a style and judge a beer according to 
whatever competition guidelines are put in front of them.  The AHA will use
the AHA style guidelines, and if the guidelines don't permit spices in
a Belgian strong ale, then a spiced beer must be out of style.

When entering your beer, you need to look at the style guidelines to 
determine in which category to enter it.  So a spiced beer shouldn't
be entered in the Belgian strong for the NHC.

In practice, it is difficult for a judge to be this objective.  Okay,
impossible.
Also, in a smaller competition you could appeal to the competition 
organizer about whether a beer is in style when the judge feels that it is
but the style guidelines for that competition say it isn't.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

          - Bryan
            grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
            Nashville, TN


------------------------------

From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at axel.vigra.com>
Date: 15 Apr 1997 07:23:50 -0700
Subject: Re: Spices in Belgian Strong ale

>> Jim Cave writes:

JC> Al Korzonas in the HBD, commented about the presence of spices in
JC> Strong Belgian Ales, further noting that the AHA guidelines do not
JC> indicate presence of spices.  Do any of you have any comment on
JC> whether you would find this acceptable if you discovered such a
JC> beer in the NHC this year?  Would you adjust your score
JC> (downwards) if you detected what may be an appropriate level of
JC> spice, in consideration of the AHA style guidelines, even though
JC> the beer may be a ringer for McChouffe?  Would such a beer more
JC> appropriately be placed in the spiced ale category?

I entered a Belgian Strong with coriander and orange peel in the
Belgian Strong Ale category.  These "spices" were intended to
contribute subtle flavor profiles, so subtle that they cannot be
identified as coriander and orange peel, but yet give an enhancement
to the complexity of the flavor profile.

In the "herb and spiced" and "fruit and vegetable" categories, it is
part of the guidelines that the herbs, spices, fruits or vegetables
be identifiable.  For example, if you use coriander, the judge should
be able to detect coriander.

The only "flaws" that were found with my Belgian Strong was that the
judges found the FG too high and the flavor too sweet.  No mention was
made of off flavors or of inappropriate ingredients.  And I know for a
fact that right on the judges' pull list, the special ingredients were
listed (I was the organizer and created the pull lists).

Will every judge call it the same, I don't know.  The ones who judged
my beer did.  I would.  And that is why I put it in Belgian Strong,
not Herb and Spice.  But if the spices are not "present" in the sense
that they are identifiable, then I think that goes along with the
guidelines not mentioning spices.

OTOH, maybe the Belgian category *should* mention spices, since a
definite part of a very commonly produced Belgian beer is coriander
and orange peel.

dion

Organizer
America's Finest City Homebrew Competition  March 8, 1997
Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity, Sponsor
http://www.vigra.com/~hollen/AFCHBC.html

- ---
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164                 Email: hollen at vigra.com
                                             http://www.vigra.com/~hollen
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs  San Diego, California

------------------------------

From: Tom Fitzpatrick <fitz at FNAL.GOV>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:11:57 -0500
Subject: Re: judging points

> From: hollen at vigra.com
> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 97 07:32:19 PDT
> Subject: BJCP Judging Points
> 
> Just saw the current BJCP points award schedule for competitions and
> unless I am somehow misinterpreting it, it *discourages* judges from
> participating in multi-day competitions.
> 
> For example, the recent GAzBF took place on Friday evening and
> Saturday all day and had just under 200 entries.  Putting aside the
> fact that I judged BOS (thanks, Rick, it was great), if I had just
> showed up on Friday night, I would have gotten the same 1 point that I
> would have gotten for judging both Friday night and Saturday (2
> sessions, 1 each day).
> 
> First, I would like to hear other people's read on this, and secondly,
> hear what the BJCP intended when they set up the points schedule like
> this.  Did you realize at all how unfair it is for one judge to get
> the exact same number of points as another after having judged twice
> the number of sessions and spent twice the time?  It is also not an
> accurate representation of how much experience the two judges got.
> One will get the same credit for twice the amount of experience
> gained. 
> 
> thanks,
> dion

The new point award schedule is thought to be equitable for the vast
majority of situations. It can't possibly cover every imaginable judging
situation and make every judge happy. The competition committee's
reasoning was that a judge should be rewarded with at least one point
for making the effort to show up and judge. Yes there will be cases 
where a judge has to leave early or can only attend one session. As
an organizer, I'd appreciate the effort the judge made to participate.
Personally, I'm not going to lose any sleep over the fact that judges
occasionally get an "extra" half point.

Dion mentions that the award schedule discourages multi-day
participation. This is true only in his above example, where a comp
has two sessions, one on each day. If the comp had one fri nite
session and two sat sessions, a judge could pick up 1.5 points.
I actually wasn't aware that any comps split a two session judging
into two days. I may be wrong, but I think this situation is rare.

At the other end of the spectrum is the contest that is spread out
over a few weekends and four or five sessions. With the old 
schedule, judges would get a fixed number of points whether they
judged two of the sessions or all five. The new point schedule
affords more flexibility here. The judge could receive up to 2.5
points for the five sessions if the contest was large enough.
So in general the new schedule is thought to more equitably
reward competition participants with less bias towards the larger
competitions and the Master judge who always insists on doing
the BOS round.

- -Tom Fitzpatrick
CC Chairman


------------------------------

From: korz at xnet.com
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:06:01 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Spices in Belgian Strong Ales

Jim writes:
>Al Korzonas in the HBD, commented about the presence of spices in 
>Strong Belgian Ales, further noting that the AHA guidelines do not indicate 
>presence of spices.  Do any of you have any comment on whether you would
>find this acceptable if you discovered such a beer in the NHC this year?
>Would you adjust your score (downwards) if you detected what may be an 
>appropriate level of spice, in consideration of the AHA style guidelines, even
>though the beer may be a ringer for McChouffe?  Would such a beer more 
>appropriately be placed in the spiced ale category?  

Well, it seems to come down to whether flavours *in addition* to those
on the guidelines are technically unacceptable.  By the letter of the
law, you could argue, that if it's not in the guidelines, it should not
be in the beer, but if you extend that to all flavour and aroma components,
you could argue that a malt aroma would be inappropriate in a Barleywine
under the 1996 AHA guidelines (I just happen to have them on my desk).
Sure enough, there is no mention of malt aroma under "1. Barley Wine."

In the spirit of the law, well, there you could probably get some supporters
that say "these are just guidelines" and "creativity should be encouraged"
even though the use of spices in Belgian Strong Ales is probably as old
as brewing in Belgium.

Here's how I would probably handle it:

If I find a beer is outside of the AHA guidelines, but errs in the direction
of commercial examples, I would deduct *very little* for this "breaking"
of the rules.  In other words, if a Bavarian Weizen was overhopped relative
to the AHA guidelines, I may mark-off 3 to 5 points (hop and balance points
under Flavour), but if a Duessldorfer Altbier was overhopped relative to
the AHA guidelines, I may only mark-off 1 or 2 points.  In this second
case, I'm afraid that if I found another beer in the Duesseldorfer Altbier
category which was exceptional in every respect *AND* within the AHA
guidelines, I think I would have to adjust the scores to make the one
that was within the guidelines the winner.

Is this clear?  What I mean is that if Altbier A was overhopped and
Altbier B was, say oxidized, then I would probably give the ribbon to A.

I've given this lots of thought.  It's one of the philosophical quandaries
of judging.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com


------------------------------

From: jobybp at metro.net (Byron Burch)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:53:56 -0700
Subject: Privacy

        Bill Coleman's recent comments on competition results privacy, and
the following discussion, made me think back to something that happened a
few years ago in a local competition.
        I was helping judge a preliminary round, and one entry came along
that had such a wretchedly offensive stench that nobody would actually
drink it. I'm frequently asked to evaluate problem beers, and this was one
of the two worst I've encountered over the years.
        In any case, I later mentioned it to the organizer, and learned
that the entrant was a VERY well known author of very well known home
brewing books, who'd sent his entry from out of state.
        Whatever had gone wrong with this particular bad bottle, making the
results public could have been a profound embarassment for him. All that
would have been needed was for somebody to find out, think it was funny,
and spread the story around the "net." It could not only do damage to the
author's reputation, but perhaps affect his book sales as well.
Fortunately, sanity prvailed, and the story was not spread.
        The idea of posting the complete results by entry number, and only
the ribbons by name is a good one. That will also protect people who
sometimes enter beers they have questions about in order to get other
people's ideas about mastering a particular style. Over the years, I've
done that a number of times. In fact, I've always thought that was one of
the principal reasons for holding competitions.
                                Byron Burch

------------------------------

From: oliver at jason.cms.udel.edu (Oliver Weatherbee)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:52:15 -0400
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Delaware Homebrew Competition

Proud of your brew? Think you got what it takes to compete with 
the big boys in the microbrewery market? Well here's your chance
to find out. The First State Brewers and Rockford Brewing Company 
are proud to announce: 

		DELAWARE'S BEST ALES CHALLENGE

			 July 26, 1997
		        Rockford Brewery
			 Wilmington, DE

Enter this homebrew competition and you might win prizes and the
opportunity of having your beer brewed and sold under a special
"Delaware's Best" label by Rockford Brewing Company. A portion of 
the proceeds from the sale of this product will go to a local 
Delaware charity. 

Prizes and ribbons will be awarded in all of the judged categories.
You will also recieve detailed tasting notes and score sheets from
certified BJCP (Beer Judge Certification Program) judges. This is 
an opportunity to have your beer evaluated by the professionals and
show just how good homebrew can be. 

There will be a catered Awards Reception the evening of the 
competition at the brewery where we will announce the winners and
distribute prizes. This reception will be open to all brewers and 
their guests (check website or entry packet for ticket information).
 
NOTICE: This is an Ales only competition. Entry is limited to
"Delaware" brewers: you must live, work, OR brew (i.e. associated 
with a Delaware based homebrew club) in order to be eligible. This
is a BJCP/AHA sanctioned event.

Intrested parties (entrants, judges, stewards) should check out our
website listed below and/or contact Oliver Weatherbee at
oliver at triton.cms.udel.edu.

- -- 
________________________________________________________
Oliver Weatherbee			oliver at triton.cms.udel.edu
			First State Brewers
	http://triton.cms.udel.edu/~oliver/firststate/
________________________________________________________

------------------------------

End of judge-digest V1 #1423
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