Return-Path: owner-judge at synchro.com Received: from srvr20.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr20.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.26]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA12590 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:46:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (0 at judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.37]) by srvr20.engin.umich.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA05413 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2) with X.500 id HAA11690; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:46:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay1.smtp.psi.net by judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2) with ESMTP id HAA11680; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:46:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from uu6.psi.com by relay1.smtp.psi.net (8.8.3/SMI-5.4-PSI) id HAA12496; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:45:53 -0500 (EST) Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA09033 for twaldon at fcc.gov; Fri, 14 Mar 97 07:45:44 -0500 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by synchro.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA01651 for judge-digest-outgoing; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:16:52 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:16:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199703141216.HAA01651 at synchro.com> From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com To: judge-digest at synchro.com Subject: judge-digest V1 #1405 Reply-To: judge at synchro.com Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com Precedence: bulk judge-digest Friday, 14 March 1997 Volume 01 : Number 1405 ============================================================================ J u d g e N e t - t h e b e e r j u d g e d i g e s t ============================================================================ Moderator: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publisher: SynchroSystems Submissions: judge at synchro.com Subscriptions: judge-request at synchro.com Archive: http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge BJCP info: geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com ============================================================================ contents: sanctioning Re: Style guidelines Re: Competition registration software RE: Wider scoring range Re: Judging to Style, again Competition Software Packages Big Apple Homebrew Competition/Call for judges ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bryan L. Gros" Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 10:28:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: sanctioning Getting back to Dion's comments a couple weeks ago about sanctioning with BJCP vs. AHA... It was a good summary of the benefits of both organizations. I agree with most that, as a judge, I would like to support the judging organization by sanctioning with the BJCP. The only difference in benefits that I see, based on Caroline's comments, was that AHA sanctioned competitions are included in the AHA announcements. If the AHA will exclues announcing BJCP sanctioned competitions (or any non-AHA competitions), aren't they missing their stated goals of serving homebrewers and working with the BJCP? Second question: What does a competition organizer agree to when sanctioning with the BJCP (or AHA: Caroline?)? Presumably, in exchange for the benefits Dion described, the organizer agrees to certain things. Do they agree to judge via BJCP published style guidelines? Use BJCP published scoresheets? Use only BJCP judges? Send the judge and steward lists to BJCP for points updates? Obviously, the BJCP cannot enforce whatever agreements are understood, but can we state explicitly what these are? - Bryan grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu Nashville, TN ------------------------------ From: Spencer W Thomas Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 12:17:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Style guidelines In my (limited) experience, a Saison is fresher tasting, with less "musty", or "cellar" aroma. Also, a Saison may be (lightly) spiced, while I don't think a Biere de Garde is. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) ------------------------------ From: Dion Hollenbeck Date: 12 Mar 1997 09:39:27 -0800 Subject: Re: Competition registration software >> Ted Manahan writes: TM> What's the collective wisdom regarding registration software? Are TM> there shareware packages available that some other intrepid judges TM> have created? While there is a shareware version of competition software out there that is well thought of, I have a large reservation in using it. It is a compiled program. No matter how good a job he has done, there will always be something that is unique to your situtation, or that the author has not thought of that would make your life easier. I have no idea of how responsive the author is, but even if he is up there with the best, he cannot be as responsive as if you are in control yourself. This is why I strongly recommend using standard off-the-shelf office software and customizing it to your needs. What are my credentials for making this statement? Doing the data entry for two competitions and being organizer and doing the data entry for a third. Being a data systems analyst for 25 years as a profession and being a software engineer and business computer consultant for 15 years as a profession. And as such, I *know* that the ability to customize software for *your* needs is *very* important, no matter how good the author's knowledge of the original problem to be solved was, he cannot have thought of everything. Software is *never* finished!! So what kind to use? While many may have used spreadsheets to do the job, the fact is that very little of what is done in a competition is math. 99% of the record keeping is data management and that is best done by a database management package. What database package to use? Just about any decent flat file database package will do. My personal recommendation is FileMaker Pro. Why? It runs on both Macs and PCs and you can interchange the database files between them. Unless you design a database that uses multiple cross linked files (relational) the database is a single file (i.e. afc97.fm is our competition database) and by copying that single file you can move it from computer to computer. Like work with it on your desktop machine at home and transfer it to your laptop for use at the competition site. I also recommend FMPRO because the BJCP judge database can be obtained in a format that easily imports and you can also get a blank judge database template from the BJCP if you register with them. And the biggest reason I recommend FileMaker Pro is that I have a complete competition setup that I am willing to share with anyone for free. All the way from the online Web judge and entry registration forms to the FMPRO databases for judges, clubs, and entries. A complete package for the price of a "Thank You". While it may not be perfect for your competition (it is mine and it is not yet perfect for ours, I keep improving it year after year), you will have a completely workable system to begin with that you can change any way to need. dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California ------------------------------ From: "Houseman, David L" Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 21:00:17 -0500 Subject: RE: Wider scoring range While I personally like George's (or Steve's) suggestion for new categories for the beer scores, the extrapolation of a subjective scoring scale for events like gymnastics or diving to objective scoring such as football or soccer is a vast stretch of the imagination but not relevant to the discussion on scoring beers. Dave Houseman ------------------------------ From: jdecarlo at juno.com (John A DeCarlo) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:49:08 EST Subject: Re: Judging to Style, again Just a quick note to clarify my Weizen example. Let's say you have a beer that has the perfect conditioning, the right amount of clarity/cloudiness, the right wheat tang, the perfect head retention and formation, BUT it has none of the special Weizen flavors/aromas from the clove phenols or banana/bubblegum/grapefruit esters that you really want in a Weizen. Sure, my comments are going to focus on the yeast--either the brewer used the wrong yeast or perhaps some other process flaw related to temperature or the like. However, *I* am also going to say that this major defect puts it out of style. Not everyone will agree with me, and I will be persuaded otherwise on occasion (in fact, I have judged beers like this and had these discussions). I still maintain that there is a hierarchy of importance in what I do when judging, that might well go something like this: 1) Good style-related comments 2) Good sensory-related comments 3) Determining binary in-style/out-of-style 4) Determining overall score 5) Determining section scores John DeCarlo, jdecarlo at juno.com, Arlington, VA http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/1113 ------------------------------ From: "Houseman, David L" Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:07:03 -0500 Subject: Competition Software Packages Ted Manahan asks about competition software packages. Barry DeLapp (Barry at pictorl.com) has such a package that is very complete and has been used in numberous competitions. This was reviewed here previous by Dennis Davison but that was some time ago and Barry has continued to improve his shareware as recommended by Dennis and others. It continues to evolve in feature content. I believe that Barry charges $25 for the media, documentation and support for this shareware. From personal experience I know that a competition is run MUCH better with this than without and it's well worth the money. A satisfied user.... Dave Houseman ------------------------------ From: MaltyDog at aol.com Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 08:33:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Big Apple Homebrew Competition/Call for judges Author: George De Piro at WAN700 Date: 3/10/97 11:18 AM Priority: Normal TO: atib at ocmvm.cnyric.org at Internet TO: homebrew at brew.oeonline.com at Internet Subject: Big Apple Homebrew Competition/Call for judges Hi all, Announcing the ****BIG APPLE HOMEBREW COMPETITION**** sponsored by New York City's finest homebrew clubs: The Malted Barley Appreciation Society and The New York City Homebrewers Guild. This year's contest will feature GARRETT OLIVER, head brewer of Brooklyn Brewing Company as a special guest best-of-show judge!!! The event will be held on April 12 at Milan, 1 East 36th Street in Manhattan. Entries are due by April 10th. Call for a list of drop-off/mail-in locations. The Best of Show will prize is a day of brewing with Keith Symonds at The Westchester Brewing Co., White Plains, NY. Interested contestants should call Joanne Sagala at 212-583-4863 (day) or Donna Bersani at 201-935-2067 (evening), or E-mail me at George_De_Piro at Berlex.com. We also need judges!!! Contact me (George) at the above E-mail address or at (201)305-5074 if you are interested in judging. Have fun! George De Piro (President, Malted Barley Appreciation Society) ------------------------------ End of judge-digest V1 #1405 **************************** Send subscription cancellations & changes to judge-request at synchro.com. Messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored.