Return-Path: owner-judge at synchro.com Received: from srvr7.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr7.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.69]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04375 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:00:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (0 at judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.37]) by srvr7.engin.umich.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA11338 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:00:52 -0500 (EST) Received: by judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2) with X.500 id LAA26638; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:00:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay1.smtp.psi.net by judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2) with ESMTP id LAA26604; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:00:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from uu6.psi.com by relay1.smtp.psi.net (8.8.3/SMI-5.4-PSI) id KAA08128; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:59:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA01749 for twaldon at fcc.gov; Tue, 11 Mar 97 10:59:21 -0500 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by synchro.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA02007 for judge-digest-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:10:54 -0500 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:10:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199703111510.KAA02007 at synchro.com> From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com To: judge-digest at synchro.com Subject: judge-digest V1 #1403 Reply-To: judge at synchro.com Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com Precedence: bulk judge-digest Tuesday, 11 March 1997 Volume 01 : Number 1403 ============================================================================ J u d g e N e t - t h e b e e r j u d g e d i g e s t ============================================================================ Moderator: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publisher: SynchroSystems Submissions: judge at synchro.com Subscriptions: judge-request at synchro.com Archive: http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge BJCP info: geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com ============================================================================ contents: Re: judge-digest V1 #1401 Call for Entries, Judges, Stewards! Re: judge-digest V1 #1401 Re: AHA/BJCP sanctioning - what does it mean? AHA Sanctioning bottom up/top down mixup Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:20:15 -0500 AFCHBC correction #3 Catching comp errors ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Moore Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 21:29:20 -0600 Subject: Re: judge-digest V1 #1401 Caroline Dunker writes: > The AHA intends to continue to sanction competitions. We feel that > while judging homebrew entries is a very important element of the > competition process, there is a lot of preparation that goes into a > competition. The AHA's Sanctioned Competition Kit helps in the > planning and organizing of a competition. The AHA is an educational > organization and sanctioning competitions is tied to our mission to > provide and disseminate information on beer and brewing. Of course the > AHA will continue to work with the BJCP to provide judges for upcoming > AHA competitions. While the AHA competition kit is fairly well done, it's two dollars worth of printed material. And I'm being generous. It never changes much, so there isn't a lot of need to get it for the second year of your contest. It seems to me that the BJCP could do a better job with a competition packet, seeing as how we've actually run homebrew contests. The AHA does the Nationals by finding a volunteer club (or homebrew shop or something) to do the work. Then they take all the money away. As I said, the AHA packet is ok. It does a pretty good job of telling you how to run a Nationals first round. Regional contests are more complicated. They may have conferences, pub crawls, tastings and other events. This stuff is essential in attracting qualified judges from out of town. Some info on how to do this would be valuable. >This is misinformation. As of September 1, 1996, the AHA and BJCP >signed an agreement that ensures all BJCP judges who participate in AHA >sanctioned competitions will receive points in the BJCP program. The >AHA charges an upfront fee of $40.00 to sanction a competition. Half of >that fee goes to the BJCP for providing the judge list and for >recording points. The judge list should be sent directly to the BJCP >for recording experience points. I'm not impressed by the horsetrading skills of whoever negotiated this deal on behalf the BJCP. BJCP sanction costs the contest-organizing club $35, but the AHA gets the same service for $20. And it ain't like the AHA is hard up for cash. >This agreement alleviates the need for dual sanctioning. It also shows >the willingness of the AHA and BJCP to work together. Yep. No need to support the BJCP anymore. The AHA will take care of everything. Steve Moore Grand Wazoo, The Foam Rangers Organizers of the 982 entry Dixie Cup Competition ------------------------------ From: Christopher Nemeth Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 15:43:47 -0600 (CST) Subject: Call for Entries, Judges, Stewards! CALL FOR ENTRIES! CALL FOR JUDGES, STEWARDS and APPRENTICES! ** The Tenth Evanston First Homebrew Challenge ** will be held Sunday, April 27,1997. This BJCP sanctioned event invites entries in all 1997 BJCP categories. All judges, stewards and apprentice judges are welcome! For homebrewing entry forms, judge/steward/apprentice registration forms by return snailmail, please provide street/city/zip code to organizer Christopher Nemeth , or voice phone 847.869.3621. ***Details: ENTRIES AHA/HWBTA Sanctioned. Organizer's report submitted 7 days after event. WOW! Only two bottles and $4.00 required per entry. Due on April 20, 1996. Ship to: Evanston First Liquors Homebrewing Department, 1019 W.Davis Street, Evanston, IL 60201 AWARDS Merchandise awards and rosette ribbons to Best of Show winners. Commemorative award to top three winners in each final category. Awards will be announced to cheering crowds at 5:00PM (see BIG EVENT below). BIG EVENT Evanston First Liquors will hold a gala microbrewery beer tasting on Sunday, April 27. As a thank you to the judges and stewards, all who help with the judging will receive *free* admission. _YOWSAH!_ APPRENTICE JUDGE TRAINING Want to judge but not certified to judge? No problem! Anyone interested in being an apprentice judge/steward is invited to register and attend a half hour orientation before judging begins. FURTHER INFO Evanston First Homebrew Challenge Organizer is Christopher Nemeth (BJCP Certified Judge, member Chicago Beer Society). Contact at , or voice 847.869.3621. Thanks for your interest! ****** To CBS-HB and JudgeNet members: Would appreciate your assistance in passing this notice via AOL, Prodigy, etc. Thanks in advance! ------------------------------ From: oliver at triton.cms.udel.edu (Oliver Weatherbee) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 09:33:13 -0500 Subject: Re: judge-digest V1 #1401 In digest #1401 Jim Larsen wrote: >The BJCP style guidelines on the First State Brewers page includes >Belgian Pale Ale in the 1997 Beer Style Table, but not among the Style >Categories. What is the description for this style? Sorry for the mistake, I have fixed it. To answer your question: Belgian Pale Ale: These ales generally share the characteristics of English pale ales; however, they are more aromatic in both malt and yeast character. They are golden to copper in color and may be brewed with the addition of candi sugar or other aromatics. Fruity, spicy, and soft, light to medium in body, with some malt aroma. Hop character is usually medium though some examples with high bitterness exist. Commercial Examples: Celis Pale Bock, De Koninck, Special Palm Ale. Objudging: Will the new BJCP scoresheets be included in the sanctioned competition packet in the next month? I am finalizing some things before officially sanctioning a competition here in Delaware and will likely do both AHA and BJCP sanctioning but would like to use the new scoresheets. ------------------------------ From: "Joel Plutchak" Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 08:38:26 -0600 Subject: Re: AHA/BJCP sanctioning - what does it mean? On Mar 9, 1:06pm, Caroline Duncker wrote: > From: Caroline Duncker > Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 16:16:08 -0700 > Subject: Re: AHA/BJCP sanctioning - what does it mean? > > The following is in response to Dion's post regarding AHA sanctioning > and BJCP registering for homebrew competitions. ... > > After the competition, we pay the AHA another $15 to have it send the > > judge and steward points on to the BJCP for recording since there is > > no AHA judging program. And we send the points listing on to the BJCP > > for recording as part of our original fee for registration. By the > > time all fees are paid to both organizations, the total to each comes > > out pretty much the same. > This is misinformation. As of September 1, 1996, the AHA and BJCP signed > an agreement that ensures all BJCP judges who participate in AHA > sanctioned competitions will receive points in the BJCP program. The AHA > charges an upfront fee of $40.00 to sanction a competition. Sounds like both the BJCP and the AHA need to get the correct information out here. I just went through the same confusing process Dion describes, and am sanctioning our competition with both bodies. I paid $25 up front to the AHA, and the material I received (about a month ago) says I need to pay an additional $15 after the competition for BJCP point registration. - -- Joel Plutchak (Organizer, Bonyard Brew-Off, Champaign IL; June 14) ------------------------------ From: Bill Giffin Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 10:08:37 -0600 Subject: AHA Sanctioning Top of the morning to ye all, Caroline Duncker said: >The AHA intends to continue to sanction competitions. I wonder why? So that the AHA NHC won't have to bear the sruitany of an outside body? >We feel that while judging homebrew entries is a very important element of the >competition process, there is a lot of preparation that goes into a competition. >The AHA's Sanctioned Competition Kit helps in the planning and organizing of >a competition. The AHA's Sanctioned Competition Kit is no better then the information put out in the handbook for competitions provided by the BJCP. In fact it may not be quite as good. The last AHA Sanctioned competition I ran I kept the score sheets and promptly trashed everything else as the forms I had designed better suited my competitions. Had I used the advice of the AHA the organization of the competition would have required a lot more work and wouldn't have been any better. >The AHA publishes the competition winners of AHA sanctioned competitions >in Zymurgy. The AHA provides calendar listing in Zymurgy and on our web >page. WOW! Having my competition listed in the calendar didn't make or break my competition, nor did it help nor harm. The value of a listing in Zymurgy is grossly overstated. A free certificate to the NHA isn't an incentive to enter a competition, even though the AHA would like you to believe that, sort of like getting Green Stamps. >This is misinformation. As of September 1, 1996, the AHA and BJCP signed >an agreement that ensures all BJCP judges who participate in AHA >sanctioned competitions will receive points in the BJCP program. The AHA >charges an upfront fee of $40.00 to sanction a competition. Half of that >fee goes to the BJCP for providing the judge list and for recording >points. The judge list should be sent directly to the BJCP for recording >experience points. This agreement alleviates the need for dual >sanctioning. It also shows the willingness of the AHA and BJCP to work >together. > When judges won't come to an AHA sanctioned event then you need to have dual sanctioning. The AHA must have judges to run the NHC. The only place to find beer judges is the BJCP, perhaps that's why they are working with the BJCP. The membership growth curve for the AHA has flattened out and has begun to dip. Perhaps this is the only reason that the AHA though Caroline is even responding to our complaints. Bill ------------------------------ From: fespourteille at mmt.com (Francois Espourteille) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:21:44 -0500 Subject: bottom up/top down mixup A few people have pointed out privately and in posts that I had my terminology mixed up. I did and I apologize. I guess that I then judge "bottom up" and not top down. I suppose in a way everybody judges "bottom up", the alternative implying the use of a straw (sorry, couldn't help myself). George De Piro completed my thoughts on that topic. >My first impression of a beer definitely gives me an idea of where >it will score (within ~5 points), but I carefully evaluate each >category before determining a final result. I do form an idea in my head when I first evaluate the beer as far as general placement goes, but then rely on specific sections to obtain my final score. And if the two are close then I'm happy. If not, it's time for the eraser and Randy makes a good point about that: >Also, I can't see why folks take offense when they see erasure marks >and then read reasons into them. If you can't defend your numbers, >don't put them down. If you make a mistake, or reconsider what's >right, you make it right and use your eraser. It doesn't matter how >you determined a change was needed but only do it if you believe it. >We're scoring the beer, not the judge. Towards the end of the Belgian Strong or Barley wine/Strong ale category I would expect the eraser to become more important. I much rather see corrections than absurd comments on a score sheet. Cheers, Francois. ------------------------------ From: "Mark S. Johnston" Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:20:15 -0500 Subject: Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:20:15 -0500 The following are the results of the Sixth Annual Moon Madness Homebrew Competition held on March 8, 1997. We had 252 entries and wish to thank the 60+ judges, stewards, and volunteers who helped make this the biggest Moon Madness Competition ever. Please Note that some categories were collapsed due to insufficient entries. There were 17 categories judged. Barley Wines & Strong Ales: 1. Dave & Yvonne Brownlee, Phoenixville, PA 2. John Rice, Pittsboro, NC 3. Alan Folsom, Warrington, PA Belgian & French Ale and Belgian Lambic: 1. Dan Morris, Elverson, PA 2. Dave Drummer, New Tripoli, PA 3. Eric Kendra, Hackettstown, NJ Mild & Brown Ale: 1. Rich Sulinski, Coatesville, PA 2. Alan Folsom, Warrington, PA 3. Rich Rosowski, Horsham, PA English Style Pale Ale: 1. Kieth Houck, Chapel Hill, NC 2. Tom Mcnamara/Heath VanVarick, Reading, PA 3. David Skok, Bensalem, PA American Style Ale: 1. Marc Anderson, Kennet Square, PA 2. Matt Trout, Lancaster, PA 3. Matt Trout, Lancaster, PA English Bitter & Scottish Ale: 1. Chuck Hanning, Malvern, PA 2. Ted Johnston, Phoenixville, PA 3. Lance Patterson, Trappe, PA Porter: 1. Jeff Weeber, West Reading, PA 2. Bob Grossman, Haddonfield, NJ 3. Steve Stutman, Narbeth, PA Stout: 1. Lisa Hudock, West Chester, PA 2. Alan Folsom, Warrington, PA 3. Joe Uknalis, Jenkintown, PA Bock: 1. Pat Bannon, Jeffersonville, PA 2. David Houseman, Chester Spring, PA 3. David Houseman, Chester Spring, PA German Dark Lager & California Common: 1. Nate Brese, Lansdale, PA 2. Terry Dinnie, Allentown, PA 3. Brent Talbot, Waldorf, MD German Light Lager, American Lager, & Pilsner 1. Ted Johnston, Phoenixville, PA 2. Curt Speaker, Boalsburg, PA 3. Pat Bannon, Jeffersonville, PA German Style Ale 1. Gordon Griffiths, Reading, PA 2. Robert Privette, Lansdale, PA 3. Mark Rowland, Skippack, PA German Style Wheat Beer: 1. Ronald Babcock, Denver, CO 2. Harold Dowda, Columbia, SC 3. David Houseman, Chester Springs, PA Specialty & Smoke Beer 1. Chuck Hanning, Malvern, PA 2. John Jacobs, Vineland, NJ 3. Brian Beckmann, Andover, NJ Fruit & Vegetable Beer: 1. Jay Behler, Paoli, PA 2. Ralph Zwirmann, Roslyn, PA 3. Clifford Rones/Brian Litten, Voorhees, NJ Herb & Spice Beer: 1. Paul LeFebvre, Haverford, PA 2. David Houseman, Chester Springs, PA 3. Bob Grossman, Haddonfield, NJ Mead & Cider: 1. Terrie Dinnie, Allentown, PA 2. Suzette Smith, Madison, NJ 3. Nate Brese, Lansdale, PA Best of Show: Kieth Houck, Chapel Hill, NC with an IPA Brewer's Choice: Lisa Hudock, West Chester, PA Lisa will assist Pretzel City Brewing Co. Head Brewer Scott Baver in producing her Imperial Stout for distribution by PCBC. Brewing is tentatively scheduled for July, 1997, with a fall release. Congradulations to all winners! - -- "If a man is not a liberal at eighteen, he has no heart. If he is not a conservative by the time he is thirty, he has no mind." - Winston Churchill ------------------------------ From: hollen at vigra.com Date: Mon, 10 Mar 97 19:39:45 PST Subject: AFCHBC correction #3 Thanks to the information superhighway, I can get results of our competition out almost before the last glass from BOS is emptied, however, I can also make a fool of myself instantly in front of unprecedented numbers of my peers. However, the third edge of the sword is that by posting these results quickly, one judge and one steward saw them and were able to spot a mistake. I apologize to all for this. German Dark Lager 13 First Stephen MacMillan - South Nevada Ale Fermenter's Union Second Patrick Mckee - Redwood Coast Homebrewer's Assoc. German Light Lager 14 First Edward Little - Foam on the Brain Second Frank Leers - Quaff Third Elizabeth Smith - Inland Empire Brewers - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California ------------------------------ From: hollen at vigra.com Date: Mon, 10 Mar 97 19:47:28 PST Subject: Catching comp errors OK, so now that I have publicly humiliated myself with the errors in our competition results, how can we keep them from happening in the future? I had no errors that I know of last year, but then again, this is the first year a large portion of our stewards and judges were online and could see the results right away and correct me. So the question for organizers who do their competitions on a computer, how many times do you check things before thinking your results are accurate? And what kind of checks do you make? Two of my errors were because I cannot generate an electronic copy of my winners list, I have to print it out and type in the copy for posting. I made two errors in transcription. The third error was because a panel of judges pulled back two score sheets, changed the scores and somehow they did not get back to me for changing the scores in the database, but got in the box of already processed sheets. I can work out how to somehow "print" to a file so I can solve the transcription problem, but does anyone have any ideas for preventing the other problem? Or have any unique checks you make? I mean, I would really like to have time to check and recheck and not post anything for awhile, but both last year and this year, I began getting calls from entrants and brew shops the day after asking for results. thanks, dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California ------------------------------ End of judge-digest V1 #1403 **************************** Send subscription cancellations & changes to judge-request at synchro.com. Messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored.