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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 08:21:55 -0500
Message-Id: <199702281321.IAA01866 at synchro.com>
From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com
To: judge-digest at synchro.com
Subject:   judge-digest V1 #1394
Reply-To: judge at synchro.com
Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com
Precedence: bulk


judge-digest              Friday, 28 February 1997      Volume 01 : Number 1394

 ============================================================================
       J u d g e N e t   -   t h e   b e e r   j u d g e   d i g e s t
 ============================================================================

 Moderator:        Chuck Cox          <chuck at synchro.com>
 Archivist:        Spencer Thomas     <spencer at umich.edu>
 Publisher:        SynchroSystems     <info at synchro.com>

 Submissions:      judge at synchro.com
 Subscriptions:    judge-request at synchro.com
 Archive:          http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge
 BJCP info:        geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com

 ============================================================================
 contents:

 Re: judge-digest V1 #1393
 March Mashfest: Judges Wanted
 Re: Steam/PU
 Re: BOS
 Re: AHA scoring sheet

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chuck R Hanning <Chuck_R_Hanning at sbphrd.com>
Date: 27 Feb 97 10:02:31 EDT
Subject: Re: judge-digest V1 #1393

Richard Drake commented that he finds the current ranges listed on the AHA
 scoresheets too narrow in the "good" category. He put the following amendment 
forth:

What I think would give the judges more latitude where they need it is to 
alter the scoring guide as follows:

Excellent ( 45-50): Exceptionally exemplifies style, requires no attention.
Very Good (35-45): Exemplifies style, requires some attention
Good (25-35): Exemplifies style satisfactorily, but requires attention
Drinkable (20-25): Does not exemplify style, requires attention
Problem (<20): Problematic, requires much attention

While I agree with his proposal, I also think that the convention we 
have adopted of giving a poor beer a 19 limits the range of 50 points.
Perhaps in addition to the above the problem range could be amended to 
< 10. This would free up more room to further numerically discern between
 the good & the very good (not too mention the ugly).

Also on another note, Jim Busch's discussion of holding one beer as a holy 
grail to represent a style, I would certainly agree with. The other side of 
this coin
could certainly be demonstrated in the belgian categories where certain 
subcategorizes 
have several commercial examples (e.g. Belgian strong ale: could be Duval, a 
Saison,
or a Kwak Strong ale). All would certainly be entered there but none really fit 
the 
current descriptions.

Just my $0.02.

Chuck Hanning


------------------------------

From: Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist) <walter at lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:40:29 -0700 (MST)
Subject: March Mashfest: Judges Wanted

Howdy,
  The Seventh Annual March Mashfest will be held Thur-Sat March 20-22,
1997 in Fort Collins, CO.  The Mashfest is a 200+ entry competition for
those counting points.  We will judge from 7pm-10pm on Thur and Fri and
from 10-1 and 2-5 on Saturday. 

  I have mailed judging invites to all judges who are on the BJCP list in
our area and also those who have judged for us in the past couple of
years.  If you have not received info from me and would like to judge
please contact me at walter at lamar.colostate.edu or (970) 493-2586 or
Brian Walter
618 Tyler St
Fort Collins, CO  80521-3122

Thanks,
- --bjw
Brian J Walter        |            walter at lamar.colostate.edu
Chem Graduate Student | Homebrewer               | RUSH Rocks Best!
Colorado State Univ   | BJCP Certified Beer Judge| Green Bay Packers #1


------------------------------

From: jeff at edm.ca (Jeff Pinhey)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:37:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Steam/PU

I think that as different styles are taken from theior place of origin,
they evolve and provide us with many different, and tasty versions of a
style.  It depends on how the subsequent generations are brewed - is the
brewer trying to mimic a style or are they trying to honour the style but
maintain the character if their region.

Stout would not be the same (IMHO) without the Sierra Nevada led west coast
version.  Guiness is goodness, but it is not alone.  I prefer American west
coast plae ales to the bottles british versions, on average.

I guess my vote comes out in favour of Darwinism - let the styles evolve,
but don't forget where they originated, and respect the roots.  I think the
best Pilsner style I had last year was brewed in Pittsburgh.

It is this evolution of style that helps keep me interested in beer.


#######################################################
         Jeff Pinhey, Halifax, Nova Scotia



------------------------------

From: "Mark S. Johnston" <msjohnst at talon.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 18:43:56 -0500
Subject: Re: BOS

Francois Espourteille wrote:

> 
>        And I won't even get into the "I don't like smoke beers".  I had 
>        to deal with a "I don't like fruit beers" recently under similar 
>        conditions...  BOS is not the time to learn about styles and if a

>        judge doesn't know relatively well one of the styles on the 
>        table, then how can that person evaluate the entry against style 
>        guidelines, which afterall is the essence of BOS?
>        

	As a point of clarification, one may not prefer a type or style of beer
and yet may still have sufficient knowledge of the style, and sufficient
palate ability to recognize good from bad. I, myself, am not partial to
many Belgian styles, but I have sat on a BOS panel that awarded a BOS to a
Framboise Lambic (with my vote being on the "majority"). To my palate, it
tasted for all the world like the 1986 Boon Marriage Parfait. 
	I agree that BOS is not the place to learn about styles, but personal
tastes should not disqualify an otherwise able judge. 


------------------------------

From: korz at xnet.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:39:11 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: AHA scoring sheet

Rick writes:
>What I think would give the judges more latitude where they need it is to 
>alter the scoring guide as follows:
>
>Excellent ( 45-50): Exceptionally exemplifies style, requires no attention.
>Very Good (35-45): Exemplifies style, requires some attention
>Good (25-35): Exemplifies style satisfactorily, but requires attention
>Drinkable (20-25): Does not exemplify style, requires attention
>Problem (<20): Problematic, requires much attention

Perhaps, but I've only given a score over 45 perhaps twice in 30+
competitions.  Since I score each characteristic individually (aroma,
appearance, etc.), I don't think that my final score would be likely to
change given the new guide.  The entrants who get their beer judged
by me are unlikely to get it deemed "Excellent" under the new guide,
whereas under the old guide, several beers from a typical good flight
would have made it.

While we are on the subject, I'd like to point out (again) that stylistic 
problems are not the only issue and that technical problems (oxidation,
infection, etc.) are just as likely to cause loss of points as deviation
from style guidelines.  The scoring guide should take this into account,
if we are going to re-write it.

Oh, by the way, you are unlikely to get any changes made to the AHA
scoresheets, but I know that the BJCP scoresheet authors are receptive
to good ideas.

Al.


------------------------------

End of judge-digest V1 #1394
****************************

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