Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:23:39 -0500
Message-Id: <199702101523.KAA01366 at synchro.com>
From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com
To: judge-digest at synchro.com
Subject:   judge-digest V1 #1379
Reply-To: judge at synchro.com
Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com
Precedence: bulk


judge-digest              Monday, 10 February 1997      Volume 01 : Number 1379

 ============================================================================
       J u d g e N e t   -   t h e   b e e r   j u d g e   d i g e s t
 ============================================================================

 Moderator:        Chuck Cox          <chuck at synchro.com>
 Archivist:        Spencer Thomas     <spencer at umich.edu>
 Publisher:        SynchroSystems     <info at synchro.com>

 Submissions:      judge at synchro.com
 Administration:   judge-request at synchro.com
 Archive:          http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge
 BJCP info:        geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com

 ============================================================================
 contents:

 Re[2]: BOS Judging again
 Enter the 7th Annual March Mashfest
 Professional Brewers entering HB comps
 Poor Judging
 Classic Beer Styles Series: BROWN ALE
 Re: Syllabus for study groups
 Re: judge-digest V1 #1373

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From: fespourteille at mmt.com (Francois Espourteille)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:23:17 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: BOS Judging again

     
      "Zach Hilgers in Digest 1375 states that:
     
"I was a BOS judge and the final field was down to about 6 beers, whic= h 
were then whittled down to 2, those being a Barleywine (of course!) and, 
believe it or not, a K=F6lsch!  Both beers were quite good, but then the 
discussion of "big beers always winning" came up and we all tasted again. 
I think that the K=F6lsch won because it was not only an excellent example 
o= f the style, but that we decided that this was not going to be another 
"big beer"- winning competition.  I for one was glad that a "small beer" 
could take on the big boys and win!"
     
      You DECIDED that this was not going to be another "big beer"-winning 
      competition????  You are not there to decide whether this will be a big 
      beer wining competition or a light beer winning competition, or whatever.  
      You are there to decide which beer was the best entry at that event.  
      Period.  Picking a lighter beer just because you don't want a big beer to 
      win is just as bad as picking the barley wine because it is a big beer.  
      No, actually it's worse.  A lot worse!  When a big beer is favored over a 
      lighter beer it's often due to a lack of judging skills; the judge can't 
      discern the problems with the big beer or gets taken in by the big beer 
      syndrome.  But deciding which beer is going to win based on its category 
      and not its quality is almost as bad as deciding with brewer will win the 
      event.  If you can't justify the lighter beer winning the BOS based solely 
      on merit, then that beer shouldn't win.  I had a very similar problem in 
      the last BOS in which I participated.  One on the judges had discounted a 
      beer from the start because he did not like fruit beers and thought that a 
      fruit beer should not win a BOS.  Only a real beer (whatever that means) 
      should win.  He was opposed to what he referred to as a gimmicky beer 
      winning the event.  That beer was a 45 pts Framboise which did end up 
      winning BOS, and rightfully so.  The final panel was 3 vs 1.  But 
      discounting, favoring, or leaning away from an entry due to personal 
      preferences is absolutely unacceptable in BOS.  If, as a judge, you can't 
      do that, then don't judge BOS.
     
      I apologize if this tirade appear a bit virulent, but I feel rather 
      strongly about this topic.  To some extent the favoring of heavy beers 
      over lighter one is probably due in to part to this problem, but I don't 
      think the way to fix it is to do a 180 and favor light beers to get even. 
       Everyone should just evaluate what is in front of them and let the best 
      entry win.  And in most cases that's just what happens.
     
      Cheer,
     
      Francois.
     
     
 -

------------------------------

From: Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist) <walter at lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:54:22 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Enter the 7th Annual March Mashfest

                          Seventh Annual March MashFest
                                 March 22, 1997

The Mash Tongues of Fort Collins, Colorado invite you to enter our Seventh
Annual March Mashfest.  We will accept all homebrewed beer and mead.  This
competition is sanctioned by the AHA.  The number of Categories will be
determined after all of the entries are received.  Historically we have had
around a dozen Categories.  Medals will be awarded to 1st, 2nd, & 3rd place
entries in each Category, as well as for Best of Show in Beer and Mead.
Cool prizes will also be obtained from local microbreweries, brew stores,
and micro-oriented taverns to accompany the medals.  One first place winner
will be selected to work with the Brewers at Dimmer's Brewpub in Fort
Collins to scale up their recipe and brew it at Dimmers!

You can get complete information about the MashFest and download an entry
packet from the Mash Tongues club Web Page at;

   http://www.fortnet.org/~smills/masht.html

Or, if you prefer you can contact us via US Mail, E-Mail, or Phone and we
will mail you a packet.

Hurry!!  The deadline for entries is    March 8, 1997.

For more information check the Web Page or contact;


Scott Mills
7512 Leslie Drive
Loveland, CO 80537
970-669-6088
smills at fortnet.org


Good Day,
- --bjw
Brian J Walter        |            walter at lamar.colostate.edu
Chem Graduate Student | Homebrewer               | RUSH Rocks Best!
Colorado State Univ   | BJCP Certified Beer Judge| Green Bay Packers #1


------------------------------

From: Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist) <walter at lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:06:35 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Professional Brewers entering HB comps

Howdy,
  A hypothetical question arose at one of our brew club planning meetings
as we prepare for our annual competition.  Our rules do not specifically
forbid professional brewers from entering beers.  They do say the beer
has to be crafted at home.  So, I was wondering what the rest of the
judging communtiy feels about this subject.  

Do you forbid professional brewers from entering your competitions?

What about brewing consultants?  The name George Fix comes to mind?

Where exactly is the line drawn here?

FWIW, my feeling is that professional brewers should not enter hb
competitions.  It seems that hb comps are basically amateur events.
Besides the look of inpropriety if a prof brewer wins awards, especially
the BOS award, I view it as almost unsportsmanlike behavior.  

Good day,
- -bjw
Brian J Walter        |            walter at lamar.colostate.edu
Chem Graduate Student | Homebrewer               | RUSH Rocks Best!
Colorado State Univ   | BJCP Certified Beer Judge| Green Bay Packers #1


------------------------------

From: jac at access.usa.net (John A. Carlson, Jr.)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:23:59 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Poor Judging

Yes I agree that there is a lot of poor judging going on out there but how
does one solve the problem.  Many times an organizer is forced to take any
warm body available to judge (BJCP program member or not) because of the
volume of entries and the lack of qualified individuals.

In Colorado, I have gotten to the point of remembering which judges are
good at which styles.  When possible, I place them in that style.  I would
like to get some new blood in the regional judging pool, but that is easier
said than done.  If clubs could put together a program similar to the BURP
effort a few years back maybe some fresh judges could mix things up a bit.

Many times, I see people who have been in the program (BJCP) for a while
get a little too relaxed
when judging (even to the point of forgetting to write their name on the
score sheet!).  To me this is unacceptable.  However, as an organizer in an
area with around 50-75 judges I cannot afford to exclude people because I
will find myself short of the people-power needed to accomplish the task
(i.e. run a competition).

My concern with the recent relaxation of the experience point system is two
pronged.
On one hand, offering more points may attract more people to judge.  This
is good.
On the other hand, allowing people to advance faster in the system may lead
to promoting people to higher rank when they lack the kind of experience
that can only come with time.  This is bad.

In conclusion, try to judge better yourself, and try to help those around
you judge better.  A few judges in my area hold a monthly study group.
Each month is a different style.   The idea behind the group is to continue
education in beer-styles and evaluation skills.  The results have been
positive and fun.  I recommend trying something like this.

- --John Carlson
National
Boulder, CO


------------------------------

From: jac at access.usa.net (John A. Carlson, Jr.)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 09:41:34 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Classic Beer Styles Series: BROWN ALE

I had the good fortune to run into Jim Parker (Institute for Brewing
Studies) last night while drinking a pint at the Corner Bar.  Jim has
recently signed a contract with Brewers Publications to write the next book
in the Classic Beer Styles Series.  The book will be on Brown Ales.

Now the exciting part.  As you know the 8th Annual Reggale & Dredhop
Homebrew Competition on March 1, 1997 in Boulder, Colorado will select the
best brown ale entry to be commercially produced by the One Keg Brewhouse.
The beer will be sold to the Old Chicago Restaurant chain and served
throughout its Front Range locations.

Jim Parker will publish the winning recipe in his Brown Ale book!   Alas,
the entry deadline is 2/21/97 and the brown ale award is only open to those
who live in Colorado (because the winner must be able to work with the
brewers at One Keg to scale up the recipe).

Brew those Browns and get them to What's Brewing in Boulder by 2/21/97 and
you may be the homebrewer to get your recipe published in Classic Beer
Styles Series: BROWN ALE!


------------------------------

From: Scott Bickham <bickham at dave.nrl.navy.mil>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 08:01:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Syllabus for study groups

George De Piro wrote:
>      
>      Well, I was thinking (ouch) about this on my drive home last night and 
>      was wondering:  Do we (the BJCP) have a syllabus available to people 
>      that coordinate judging classes?

I started drafting a version a few weeks ago, and Brewing Techniques expressed
an interest in printing it there.  At least a third of a BJCP judges are
subscribers, and over half of their subscribers enter competitions, so this
will be a good method of spreading the word.  I'll post a condensed version
here and see if I can get it into the BJCP reporter.

>      If we don't, shouldn't we?  This would increase the chances of 
>      creating a pool of qualified judges who all score with uniform 
>      technique, regardless of geography.

One difference will be the lack of or difference in locally available commecial
examples.  With the DC exam in November, I learned that having solid classes with
expert instructors was not a substitute for independent study.  That means
preparation before and review after each class, which is rarely done since
we have families, jobs, etc.  

Scott

------------------------------

From: BruDr at aol.com
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 11:17:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: judge-digest V1 #1373

I writing in response to Al Folsom's observations that beers "must push the
envelope" of their respective categories in order to score well in contests.
I agree whole heartedly and have seen the tendency in both judging with
others and in scores I have obtained in recent contests. I've brewed an
American Brown Ale that nearly always scores well in contests (34 - 40
range). However, it wasn't until I dry hopped the beer considerably that I
won the category or best-of-show. You may also have noticed this past years
Scotch Ale Gold Medal winner at the AHA nationals. Loren and I almost didn't
enter that beer because we thought it "too big" for the style (S.G.= 1.096).
And, just as Al mentioned, I also took best of show at T.R.A.S.H  VI with
(you guessed it ) a Russian Stout. When I judge, I really try give all beers
a fair shake. Lately, I find myself trying to defend "smaller" beers in
contests as I find myself the minority in my judging group feeling that
bigger is not necessarily  better. I know if I brew an APA to Sierra Nevada
specs (IBU's in the low 30's , lots of finishing hops, and no dry hops) it
wouldn't have much of a chance in a contest even if it is emulating the
classic of the style. I believe we need to get away from the concept of
having "one perfect profile" in mind when we dive into judging a style. If we
can't, then we really need to rewrite the style guidelines in order to come
in line with the way we tend to  favor the bigger profile. 
I have many brewing friends who brew wonderful beers that very much "fit"
into AHA guidelines. Most of them have simply stopped entering contests
mainly because their efforts have been reduced in score when they were put up
against "bigger" entries (usually out of the style range) from competition
savy brewers (who are also usually judges).

Jeff Boggess, Ph.D.
Certified Judge

------------------------------

End of judge-digest V1 #1379
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