Return-Path: owner-judge at synchro.com Received: from srvr12.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr12.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.68]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA01541 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:35:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (0 at redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.36]) by srvr12.engin.umich.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA07898 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:35:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2) with X.500 id IAA21709; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:35:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay4.smtp.psi.net by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2) with ESMTP id IAA21688; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:35:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from uu6.psi.com by relay4.smtp.psi.net (8.8.3/SMI-5.4-PSI) id IAA08675; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:34:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA00235 for juknalis at ARSERRC.Gov; Thu, 6 Feb 97 08:34:35 -0500 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by synchro.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA01493 for judge-digest-outgoing; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:54:22 -0500 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:54:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199702061254.HAA01493 at synchro.com> From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com To: judge-digest at synchro.com Subject: judge-digest V1 #1377 Reply-To: judge at synchro.com Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com Precedence: bulk judge-digest Thursday, 6 February 1997 Volume 01 : Number 1377 ============================================================================ J u d g e N e t - t h e b e e r j u d g e d i g e s t ============================================================================ Moderator: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publisher: SynchroSystems Submissions: judge at synchro.com Administration: judge-request at synchro.com Archive: http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge BJCP info: geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com ============================================================================ contents: Pacific Northwest Homebrew/Mead competition Re: Poor judging Qualifications Judge training / Score sheets Re: judge-digest V1 #1376 Call for judges and entries South Shore Brew Club Homebrew Competition ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Deborah Robinson Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:05:43 -0800 Subject: Pacific Northwest Homebrew/Mead competition The Cascade Brewers Guild present: The First Annual Pacific Northwest St. Patrick's Cascadia Cup Homebrew & Mead Competition Sunday, March 16th, 1997 at Redhook Ale Brewery Woodinville, Washington Sponsored by: Evergreen Brewing Supply Redhook Ale Brewery Rose Hill Ale House This competition is AHA sanctioned. For more information, visit the Cascade Brewers Guild Website: http://www.eskimo.com/~gronk/cbg/contest.htm Or for judging: Deborahr at microsoft.com 206-703-6689 (daytime, many evenings...) ------------------------------ From: jdecarlo at mail04.mitre.org (John A. DeCarlo) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 08:07:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Poor judging George De Piro brings up the subject of poor judging again. Perhaps BJCP score sheets can *emphasize* the desire by BJCP judges to have feedback on poor (or excellent) judging sent to the BJCP officials. I know I put my e-mail address on judge sheets to get feedback. I also wish I had copies of all my judging sheets, as I would no doubt blush upon reading the early ones. I also probably make mistakes every time I judge. I hope George sends his comments with a copy of the offending judge sheets to the proper BJCP officials. John DeCarlo, jdecarlo at juno.com, Arlington, VA ------------------------------ From: Bill Giffin Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 08:42:03 -0600 Subject: Qualifications Good morning, >>>George De Piro said: 2. There are *BJCP CERTIFIED* judges out there that don't know diddley. 3. These same judges occasionally get to "teach" others!!! Points 2 and 3 should embarrass all of us. When your average homebrewer enters a contest and gets back this kind of nonsensical judging, they feel ripped off. They PAID to get their beer judged, and deserve better from our organization. <<< Why just pick on the Certified judges? There are Master and National judges who fall into the same category. The exam is only a means to qualify people to be in the program, yet we also use it as a ranking method. A high score on the exam does not mean that a particular judge knows everything about all styles of beer nor does it qualify them to be competent to judge all styles of beer. Yet that is the only time that a judge is truly evaluated. This problem of having judges who are not as well versed as they should be goes back as long as I have been evolved in beer judging. When I mentioned to a senior judge the first time I was about to enter a competition this judge told me if you want to win brew the beer on the BIG side. Judges can usually quote the range of the O.G. the style should fall within, but most often chose a beer that is well above the mean for the style and often above the range for the style, this is also true about hopping rates. How do we correct this problem? I know there are many of you who will state that everything is just fine. We have to better educate our judges and train them in styles. We need a program of continuing education as is required by most professionals to continue in their profession. Perhaps some of the problems should be laid at the feet of organizers of competitions. If the organizer of a competition disqualified any entry that stated the O. G. of an entry was above the guideline that might be a help in getting people to enter to style and would help the judges better learn what the style should be. When we have a Master judge out there who is monitoring the exam writing comments about, while judging a ringer in a competition, an entry that the brewer should check their recipe and brew the beer more like Guinness when the beer was Guinness we have a problem. The above is not an isolated event and it did happen. Bill ------------------------------ From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 08:08:08 -0800 Subject: Judge training / Score sheets Hi all, Yesterday I wrote describing my recent experience with poor judging, and mentioned that I didn't know what to do about it. Well, I was thinking (ouch) about this on my drive home last night and was wondering: Do we (the BJCP) have a syllabus available to people that coordinate judging classes? If we don't, shouldn't we? This would increase the chances of creating a pool of qualified judges who all score with uniform technique, regardless of geography. Just a thought. --------------------- I judged at a contest last month that used score sheets that seemed to be BJCP (but not AHA) sanctioned. These sheets were very similar to the sheets I usually see except that the "faults" column on the left side of the sheet was expanded at the expense of the "scoring" column on the right. This left inadequate room for writing comments legibly, which was most annoying. Is this a new standard score sheet, or just what one organizer made? Is there any problem with 2-sided score sheets? Is it that much more costly to photocopy double sided? Imagine how much room there would be for comments, while still presenting a detailed list of faults and causes. Just an idea. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) ------------------------------ From: Larry M Matthews Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:02:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: judge-digest V1 #1376 At 12:39 AM 2/4/97 -0500, George wrote: >From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) >Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:11:07 -0800 >Subject: Scoring guidelines > > I don't know what more we can do to ensure that judges know their > stuff. Perhaps the exam needs to concentrate more on tasting and > styles. Perhaps it is too easy. Really, the hardest thing I found > about the written portion of the exam was the time limit. > > I think that if we want to improve our image we should concentrate on > ensuring that we are all doing a good job. That would go a lot > further than holding a commercial contest. > > George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Fellow Judges, After just finishing with the organization of the AHA Hail to Ale COC which resulted in 90 entries, I wanted to respond to George with a thought that some of us discussed after our BOS this past Feb 1. First, I don't think a big competition is always better. There is a tendency for the judges and organizers to feel pushed for time and therefore the remarks and feedback to the entrants is not always optimal. Secondly, BJCP has no mechanism in place that I know of to provide mentor feedback to a judge that may be just filling a slot or looking to gain those 5 points for Certified. With a smaller contest of 150 or less beers there is more time to review your judge sheets and comments and make some mental and written notes on a judge's effort/performance in a competition. After all evaluations were completed, I reviewed a few forms and then ask the judges to evaluate their written performance with the entrants recipe sheet in full view. It was gratifying for me and the judge when a comment made was "stale, probably beyond it's prime" and then you note that the IPA was bottled last March. Or when a judge noted that the Classic English "was too bold with malt for style" and the recipe sheet shows am OG of 1065. And finally, a judged noted "there was too much residual sweetness, check fermentation procedures" and again the recipe sheet shows the beer used Laaglander malt and had a FG of 1018 for an APA. Certainly, these were the positives but these judges left the site with a better sense of what they had done may be worthwhile. There were also more than I desired of negatives but again, these judges understood the process better with this experiment. Most judges need and probably want immediate feedback on their efforts. We must develop just such a feedback system otherwise we will continue to judge in a vacuum and continue the only system of judging we know. Our Shamrock Open in Raleigh last March drew 170 entries in only our club's first competition. I pushed hard along with other members of the competition committee to have a good turnout on our first event. Now I hope we don't continue to grow so that we can continue to give our best efforts to our entrants. I would encourage organizers to continue the process of requesting a recipe sheet with all entries IF the sheet is used by the club and BJCP judges within the club to further the continuing education of its members and their guest judges. By the way, winners of the BOS for the Hail to Ale were: 1st-Shekhar & Paula Nimkar- Boston Wort Processors with an American-style Amber 2nd-Andy Widger-Allegany Libation, Education, & Recreation Society with an American-style Pale Ale 3rd-Tom Viaene-Boeing Employees Wine & Beer Club (WA) with an American Wheat Larry M Matthews Carboy/Trub Member Raleigh, NC 27606 lmatt at ipass.net ------------------------------ From: Paul Krebs Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:27:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Call for judges and entries Please consider judging at and/or entering our contest: The Saratoga Thoroughbrews present the 2nd annual Knickerbocker Battle of the Brews Homebrew Competition Holmes & Watson Ltd. Troy, NY Saturday, March 1, 1997 Grand Prize: $250 Gift Certificate from North Country Brewery good at Eddy's Beverage/The Hoppy Troll The Saratoga Thoroughbrews Homebrew Club will be holding the second annual Knickerbocker Battle of the Brews at Holmes & Watson in Troy, NY on March 1, 1997. The competition is sanctioned by the American Homebrewers Association. We will try to have two or more BJCP judges per panel. Winners will be announced and awards will be presented at 5:00 PM. For more information contact one of the organizers below or visit our web site: Knickerbocker Web Site: www.albany.net/~looney/kbotb97 (all forms are available here) Organizer: Keith Looney looney at albany.net 518-458-9354 FAX: 518-482-1942 Assistant Organizer: Jim Raimo raimoja at pssch.ps.ge.com 518-884-8689 Head Judge: Paul Krebs pkrebs at cris.com 518-885-2581 Eligibility: Anyone may enter. Beer, mead, or cider entered must have been made at home. Beverages made at a commercial enterprise, including brew-on-premise establishments, are not eligible. Categories: This competition uses the 1997 AHA style guidelines. Each entry must be classified as one of these styles for judging purposes. Please choose styles carefully. Entries will be judged as an example of the chosen style. Judges will not reclassify entries. Similar styles will be grouped together for the purpose of awarding prizes. Entry Fee: The fee for the first entry is $6, and additional entries are $4 each. Please make checks payable to Keith Looney. Only checks will be accepted for shipped entries. Please do not send cash. Entries: For each entry, the brewer must submit: * Two (2) bottles or one pressurized PET container (plastic soda bottle) with "carbonator". Bottles may be of any style, but must contain at least 7 ounces and be free of labels and have any other identifying marks blacked out. PET containers must be filled with at least 22 ounces. Carbonators will be returned to entrants. * Bottle identification forms attached to each bottle with a rubber band. * A completed competition entry form. * The appropriate entry fee based on the total number of entries. Entries may be dropped off from February 15 to 21, 1997 at any of the locations listed in the entry form or they may be carefully packed and shipped (preferably via UPS) between the same dates to the following address: Holmes and Watson Ltd. 450 Broadway Troy, NY 12180 518-273-8526 This contest will count toward the New York Brewer of the Year Contest. Paul Krebs pkrebs at cris.com ------------------------------ From: Esbitter at aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:15:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: South Shore Brew Club Homebrew Competition Don't forget to save some entries for the: **************************************************************** South Shore Brew Club's SECOND ANNUAL SOUTH SHORE BREWOFF Boston South's Best Homebrew Competition! BJCP sanctioned **************************************************************** Deadline for entries March 15th, 1997. Pickup entry forms and style guidelines at the dropoff locations listed below. Any questions about the competition regulations, procedures, awards, etc., should be directed to: Glenn Markel 508-226-3249 (grmarkel at aol.com) or Randy Reed 617-341-8170 (esbitter at aol.com) Interested in Judging/Stewarding Sunday, March 23rd? Please contact Stephen Rose at 508-821-4152 for a judge/steward entry form. First come, first served. BJCP points and food will be provided. Entry forms can be obtained at the following drop off points: Witches Brew, 25 Baker St. Foxboro, MA (508)-543-0433 Barleycorn Enterprises, 149 Union St. Rockland, MA 02370 (617)-871-9399 Hoppy Brewer, 493 Central Ave. Seekonk, MA 02771 (508)-761-6615 Barley Malt & Vine, 26 Elliot St. Newton, MA 02161 (617)-630-1015 Brew Horizons, 884 Tiogue Ave., Coventry, RI 02816 (401)-589-2739 Entries can also be shipped to: South Shore Brew Club, c/o Glenn Markel 1053 Pleasant Street Attleboro, MA 02703 We expect this year's competition to receive over 100 entries. It's large enough to give your entry plenty to compete against while not so large as make winning a "longshot." The goal of our Brewoff is to provide home brewers quality, objective feedback of their craft. We are looking forward to judging your entry. Good Luck! - -Randy ==================================================== +-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ + The Local Brewing Company + + ESBITTER at AOL.COM + Surfing the + Randy Reed + Information + BJCP Recognized SuperBikePath Beer Judge/Potscrubber + & + South Shore Brew Club + Whirled Wide + (Boston, MA Area - South) + Web +-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-+ Visit the South Shore Brew Club at http://members.aol.com/brewclub/ ------------------------------ End of judge-digest V1 #1377 **************************** Send subscription cancellations & changes to judge-request at synchro.com. Messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored.