Return-Path: owner-judge at synchro.com Received: from srvr8.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr8.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.81]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA09065 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 11:17:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (0 at judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.37]) by srvr8.engin.umich.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA01255 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 11:17:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2) with X.500 id LAA10977; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 11:17:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay2.smtp.psi.net by judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2) with SMTP id LAA10968; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 11:17:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from uu6.psi.com by relay2.smtp.psi.net (8.6.12/SMI-5.4-PSI) id LAA08216; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 11:14:10 -0500 Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA25348 for juknalis at ARSERRC.Gov; Sat, 1 Feb 97 11:14:07 -0500 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by synchro.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA03789 for judge-digest-outgoing; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 09:47:34 -0500 Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 09:47:34 -0500 Message-Id: <199702011447.JAA03789 at synchro.com> From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com To: judge-digest at synchro.com Subject: judge-digest V1 #1374 Reply-To: judge at synchro.com Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com Precedence: bulk judge-digest Saturday, 1 February 1997 Volume 01 : Number 1374 ============================================================================ J u d g e N e t - t h e b e e r j u d g e d i g e s t ============================================================================ Moderator: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publisher: SynchroSystems Submissions: judge at synchro.com Administration: judge-request at synchro.com Archive: http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge BJCP info: geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com ============================================================================ contents: BOS Judging RE: Extremes Call for Judges/Competition Announcement Re: judge-digest V1 #1373 Call of Judges Re: Extremes New York City Spring Regional Homebrew Competition Style guidelines on BJCP exam ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Houseman, David L" Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:22:37 -0500 Subject: BOS Judging GSMITHBEER states: "Mr.Spencer misses the enter point about the "Vagaries" of any judging...(including home brew by the way.) Can't even tell you how many best of shows I've watched pick a barley wine (or imperial stout - no matter, always a big beer) as the winner, then when you sample it you find it's an undrinkable cough syrup....." I dissagree with this assessment. While big beers do win BOS, I haven't counted or calculated whether the percentage of time correlates to the number of "big beer" categories there are versus the other categories. I've judged perhaps 20 BOS competitions and have been a party to Mild, American Pale Ales, Weizens, Specialties, Fruit beers as well as tripels, dopplebocks and other beers winning BOS. In the flights to pick the best in a category, it's simply the best of any given style that proceeds to the BOS round. It might not necessarily be all that good or it might have a flaw or two. In BOS though, with up to 20+ beers occasionally, it's selecting the best of the best. Which style best represent its style. So beers with obvious flaws get tossed quickly. True that often the lighter beers may be more suseptible to their flaws being detected but for the better judges that's not a problem. I don't think that "always" applies to this case but perhaps your observations are atypical. In a recent competition, the vagarities of judging were never more evident than having judged BOS, where there were really only 3 or 4 beers out of 19 that were even in consideration for BOS, only two were in contention and there was no problem quickly coming to consensus for the winner -- yes it was a big beer ;-)) -- I tasted some of the beers that didn't even place and was amazed that they weren't in the BOS round. The judging form returned for a weizen marked off being cloudy, having phenols and banana tastes!! This was but one of several examples. But getting judges who really don't know a style is luck of the draw so over the long run, everyone should fair evenly. Dave Houseman ------------------------------ From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:52:41 -0800 Subject: RE: Extremes Hi all, Al Folsom brings up some interesting points about extremes. I seem to remember reading something here about hop perception becoming dull quickly after exposure to highly hopped brews. This would lead to the choosing of extreme beers as winners. When reading recipes in the AHA National Winners circle this year I noticed that the Gold medals for hoppier styles (Alt, pale ale) were awarded to VERY extreme beers (especially the APA; just reading it made my face twist. Interestingly, one judge out of the three said, "Puckering bitterness overwhelms..."). This could be explained by taste bud fatigue. I have seen this with other styles, too. I spent months trying to produce a clovey Weizen with subtle banana only to have the judges criticize the lack of esters! Perhaps they couldn't notice subtle esters after a day of banana beer. Olfactory/taste bud fatigue is a real problem for judges. We should be aware of this phenomena and try to combat it by taking time between beers, and rinsing the palate with plenty of water. Of note is the fact that the best of show winners at the AHA Nationals for the past three years (at least) have NOT been big beers. Could this be because of the level of judges at the AHA NHC BOS, or some other factors, or a combination? Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) ------------------------------ From: Mike Wallace Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:00:41 -0500 Subject: Call for Judges/Competition Announcement CARBOY (Cary-Apex-Raleigh Brewers of Yore) will sponsor the 1997 Shamrock Open Homebrew Competition, on April 5. Entries will be accepted in all 1997 AHA categories except Cider. The entry deadline is Tuesday April 1. $6 for the 1st entry, $5 for the 2nd and $4 for all others. This BJCP registered competition is the first of three annual competitions leading to the North Carolina Homebrewer of the Year Award, and will again be held at the BB&Y Restaurant in Raleigh, NC. Competition Organizer: Mike Wallace (919) 881-9918 (evenings), mike_wallace at ncsu.edu Judge Director: Steve Murphrey (919) 779-4482 (evenings), murphrey at us.ibm.com Please contact either of us for further information, to receive an entry packet, or to register as a judge or steward. ------------------------------ From: "George Danz (919) 405-3632" Date: Wed, 29 Jan 97 17:30:42 EST Subject: Re: judge-digest V1 #1373 >From: folsom at ix.netcom.com (Alan Folsom) >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:03:37 -0600 (CST) >Subject: Extremes > >A phenomenon I've noticed lately with judging is that a beer rarely >scores well if it does not push the extremes of whatever defines that >style. For example, an American Pale Ale had better scream hops and be >extremely bitter, no matter what the range of bitterness says in our >style guidelines, if it is going to place well. To score with an IPA, >it's even worse. I know people who brew to the IPA guidelines, but >enter the beer as an APA or English Pale Ale, in order to have a chance >in a contest. > >The American Brown Ale category is another example. Although the style >guidelines list a wide range of bitterness and hop character, If the >hops aren't overpowering, it just won't score well, regardless of the >other characteristics of the beer. I've brewed American Browns that >have won, and American Browns which haven't. I know which I prefer, >and they aren't necessarily the ones that win contests. > >On the other end of the scale is the oatmeal stout I had in a contest >last weekend. The judge's comment was that it was too thin for style, >however the starting gravity was 1.060, and it finished at 1.029. I >suppose I could not ferment it at all, which might give it more body! > >I am concerned that with are scoring we are incouraging caricatures of >the actual beer styles. I know that in a largish flight of beer it is >the extremes which stand out, but I think we need to recognize this >affect and try to avoid it. I try to be alert to and correct this >tendency when I judge, but it seems to be pervasive. > Yes, I think that there is a tendency from what I've seen from the results, but I just go on doggedly judgeing by the guidelines. What else can we do? Unless there is a way to find out who's screwing up? George Danz >Has anyone else noticed this? Am I completely off the wall? (This >topic only) > >Al Folsom > >------------------------------ > >End of judge-digest V1 #1373 >**************************** > > Send subscription cancellations & changes to judge-request at synchro.com. > Messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored. > > ------------------------------ From: David Klein Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:22:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: Call of Judges THIRD ANNUAL WORLD CUP OF BEER HOMEBREW COMPETITION Homebrew Judges, In the spirit of recognizing the development of endemic styles of beer, the Bay Area Mashers are proud to present the 3rd annual World Cup of Beer Homebrew Competition. We invite you to enter and judge this event. The competition is sanctioned by the BJCP and is being sponsored by numerous west coast beer related businesses. The deadline for receiving entries is March 15, 1997; The judge registration deadline is also March 15, 1997. Final judging will be conducted on March 29, in Oakland. Like last year, we'll work to ensure a nice resturant environment, with proper beer serving temperatures, and clean glassware to ease your job. Ribbons and prizes will be awarded to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place finishers in each category, and to Best of Show. After judging, we invite you to a party at the Barclays Pub and Restaurant to celebrate all efforts and award the winners. This will be an excellent opportunity to share homebrew and interact with the professional and amateur brewers who are reviving quality brewing in the Bay Area. For more information please check out out Web page at: http://www.hooked.net/users/regent/worldcup.htm For more judging information please mail me at klein at physics.berkeley.edu and let me know if you'ld like me to send you a judge registration packet, or if you would like to be registered by email. Sincerely, David Klein Judge Coordinator (415) 641-5524 ------------------------------ From: "Mark S. Johnston" Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:49:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Extremes Al Folsom writes: >A phenomenon I've noticed lately with judging is that a beer rarely >scores well if it does not push the extremes of whatever defines that >style. For example, an American Pale Ale had better scream hops and be >extremely bitter, no matter what the range of bitterness says in our >style guidelines, if it is going to place well. To score with an IPA, >it's even worse. I know people who brew to the IPA guidelines, but >enter the beer as an APA or English Pale Ale, in order to have a chance >in a contest. He then states: >I know that in a largish flight of beer it is the extremes which stand out, >but I think we need to recognize this affect and try to avoid it. I think Al may have answered his own question, especially since the styles he referred to are all styles featuring high hop content as a profile descriptor--IPA, APA, American Brown. I agree that some people prefer extremely bitter beer, but I think that in these styles, it's difficult to judge a flight of 15 or more entries and not be impressed by something more dominant at the end of the flight. If one recognizes this tendency, you can think hard about your scoring. But that may open up the whole argument of scoring harder on one end of a flight than another--something I oppose. I am not a big fan of "extreme" beer, and tend to score higher for a well balanced beer, as opposed to one-dimensional. - -- "If a man is not a liberal at eighteen, he has no heart. If he is not a conservative by the time he is thirty, he has no mind." - Winston Churchill ------------------------------ From: Ken Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 21:52:55 -0500 Subject: New York City Spring Regional Homebrew Competition The 6th. ann. New York City Spring Regional Homebrew Competition will be held on sunday 3/23/97 at Kilmeyer's Old Bavarian Inn on Staten Island. Complete entry information, including; categories, costs and deadlines and requests for entry forms can be found on the Homebrewers of Staten Island home page URL http://www.wp.com/hosi/ Anyone interested in judging can request a judge registration form Bob Precision Brewing Systems Manufacturer of SS Brew Kettles, 3 Vessel Brew Systems and the MAXICHILLER. Fastest, most efficient wort chiller available ------------------------------ From: Scott Bickham Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:38:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Style guidelines on BJCP exam The introduction of a second set of style guidelines has prompted questions similar to the following: > i was wondering if the changesin the style guidelines for 97 were > going to be directly affecting test taken after jan. 21,97. will their > immediate implementation affect the exam i will be taking on the 8th of > feb. in michigan. Most of the questions on the BJCP exam are written to be independent of the style guidelines, and I review the questions on each exam to make sure there are no geographic biases or potential problems. An examples would be changing the question "Describe, compare and differentiate the members of the stout family" to "Describe, compare and differentiate four common members of the stout family". Several years ago, the answer would have included dry, sweet, foreign and imperial, but now oatmeal stout is listed in both the BJCP and AHA guidelines. Styles not included in both sets (e.g. Continental dark) will not be required knowledge. On the other hand, if you are asked to describe three Belgian beers, Saison is certainly acceptable and if you are to describe English brown ales, knowing the difference between Northern and Southern varieties can demonstrate depth. The latter delineation is not done in the AHA guidelines, but Jackson differentiates them in his Beer Companion. I hope this helps. Scott - -- ======================================================================== Naval Research Laboratory, Code 6691 E-mail: bickham at dave.nrl.navy.mil Complex Systems Theory Branch Home or BJCP: 7507 Swan Point Way Washington, DC 20375 Columbia, MD 21045 (202) 404-8632 FAX: (202) 404-7546 (410) 290-7721 BJCP Web Page: http://www.execpc.com/~ddavison/bjcp.html ========================================================================= ------------------------------ End of judge-digest V1 #1374 **************************** Send subscription cancellations & changes to judge-request at synchro.com. Messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored.