Return-Path: owner-judge at synchro.com Received: from srvr8.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr8.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.81]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA21761 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:47:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.36]) by srvr8.engin.umich.edu (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA09254 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:47:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2) with X.500 id BAA09375; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:47:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay2.smtp.psi.net by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2) with SMTP id BAA09341; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:47:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from uu6.psi.com by relay2.smtp.psi.net (8.6.12/SMI-5.4-PSI) id BAA25966; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:47:02 -0500 Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA27772 for at uumx.smtp.psi.net:briantulow at aol.com; Mon, 13 Jan 97 01:46:58 -0500 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by synchro.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA04035 for judge-digest-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:07:40 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:07:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199701130607.BAA04035 at synchro.com> From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com To: judge-digest at synchro.com Subject: judge-digest V1 #1367 Reply-To: judge at synchro.com Errors-To: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com Precedence: bulk judge-digest Monday, 13 January 1997 Volume 01 : Number 1367 ============================================================================ J u d g e N e t - t h e b e e r j u d g e d i g e s t ============================================================================ Moderator: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publisher: SynchroSystems Submissions: judge at synchro.com Administration: judge-request at synchro.com Archive: http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge BJCP info: geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com ============================================================================ contents: Judging of Commercial beers.... Professional Competition Re: commercial judging Re: BJCP Commercial Comps Re: judge-digest V1 #1366 New York City Spring Regional Competition ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Cave Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 9:05:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: Judging of Commercial beers.... I was thinking of something similar a few weeks ago. I believe the the local general public should be informed about the quality of the new, wide range of beers they are being offered. The craft brewed beers "took off" a couple of years ago in British Columbia and there is a lot of mediocre product. I thought the local judges could rate the local beers and publish the results in some way, provide point scores or ribbon categories. Since the judges would be independent of the brewing community, nepotism would be more restricted. Also, as the results would be published, there would be an incentive for breweries to improve. Moving to a competition format is one way of acheiving this, albeit, more intensive, for a shorter period of time. Also, not all beers could be received. One of the previous posters thought such a competition would have to be very well thought out and would be a lot of work. Obviously!! It would be far more complicated and time consuming than any of the homebrew competitions. Perhaps it should be regionalized in the same way as the AHA national competition. Jim Cave ------------------------------ From: jac at access.usa.net (John A. Carlson, Jr.) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:46:27 -0700 (MST) Subject: Professional Competition I find it very amusing that when I mentioned that the BJCP Board should consider awarding experience points to BJCP Judges that participate in *existing commercial competitions* the responses generated were nonexistant with the exception of some comments from James Spence. James had some good ideas to add to the conversation but the rest of you were very quiet. Now some individuals out there want to explore the possibility of the BJCP hosting a commercial competition! Are you kidding? Who in this organization would do the work? Does anyone recommending this proposed competition have any idea of the logistics involved in such an event? I would suggest that you do your homework. What are the problems with the GABF? Do you feel that professional brewers and people like Jackson and Fix are not qualified judges? BTW, the major difference between the Great Amercian Beer Festival (GABF) and the World Beer Cup (WBC) is that the WBC was open to international entries as well as domestic and did not have a public component to it (i.e. festival) as the GABF does. Maybe the BJCP should focus on getting a homebrew scoresheet developed, official style guidelines drafted, exams administered & graded, pins produced, personal judging records updated and newsletters mailed instead of wasting time pondering a hypothetical competition that will in all probability never even get off the ground. John Carlson -- National ------------------------------ From: randy at cais.cais.com (Randy Paul) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:51:28 -0500 Subject: Re: commercial judging John Sullivan writes: >There is only one compelling reason that the BJCP should get involved in the >organization of a GABF type competition. That reason is to bolster the >treasury of the BJCP in order that we can more effectively pursue our >mission. While increased exposure is nice, ..... I'm inclined to disagree with this (but let's talk about it). It would be interesting and fun to evaluate beer using different criteria than we use for homebrew and it should take a great deal more skill on the part of a judge who can do both well. As others have stated, the criteria for commercial beer are probably not conformance to style (although it should help for beers to be judged in groups of like-styles). For example, what is the *best* way to evaluate ubiquitous American adjunct lagers (a way that will keep both brewers and judges happy to participate?)? A good debate on what the best homebrew judges think *should* be the criteria will make us better judges. How can that hurt? The toughest part would seem to be financing. How to get enough money to run something like this efficiently and maintaining an appearance (and reality) of complete objectivity? It's a lot easier to think of wrong ways to do this than right ones. - -- Randy ------------------------------ From: "Rad Equipment" Date: 9 Jan 1997 13:39:26 U Subject: Re: BJCP Commercial Comps Subject: RE>BJCP Commercial Comps Date: 1/9/97 Time: 1:35 PM I think there is some confusion over the Commercial Competition debate. The BJCP is considering drawing up a recognition program for commercial comps similar to how we now register homebrew events now. I don't believe the BJCP is considering sponsoring a GABF clone. We are simply looking into establishing requirements which will guide such events so that both the brewers and the public can have some confidence in the results. RW... BEER JUDGE CERTIFICATION PROGRAM c/o Celebrator Beer News - PO Box 375 - Hayward CA 94543 414-299-9145 Russ Wigglesworth, Program Administrator Rad_Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu BJCP Web Site - http://www.execpc.com/~ddavison/bjcp.html ------------------------------ From: Dedpetvet at aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 20:55:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: judge-digest V1 #1366 I find the suggestion for a BJCPGABF in triguing and a little daunting. But most if not all really great things look that way. We can disscuss this thing until the cows come home and we still won't know if it is a viable concept until it is tried, and the prudent way to test the waters is a state wide or regional contest. Pick a region with a good concentration of judges within a reasonable geographic area i.e. New England and test the concept. The first step would be to Query the commercial veiwers for their interest and input. Addititional comments: beer styles are what this organization is about and under no circumstancees should we attempt to be or do that which we ain't; this type of endevour must have high visibility to attract the commercial crowd; high visibility has it's down side for an volunteer organization, but it certainly is a great recruiting tool and mechanism for mainting interest and enthusiasm; I agree with Larry Mathews that style can be a valuable marketing tool - look at the wine industry's use of wine styles. Germany's award of appalations to beers recognizes the commercial importance of styl;e purity; To imply that the organized home brew community is not motivated to affect the been is to have had your head buried either in the ground or in an ivory tower for the last couple of decades. Bill MacKenzie ------------------------------ From: Ken Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 20:58:10 -0500 Subject: New York City Spring Regional Competition The 6th ann NYC Spring Regional Homebrew Competition will be held on Sunday March 23rd. We expect over 250 entries and have commitments for $750.00 in prizes. Judges are needed. For complete information see the clubs home and competition announcement at URL http://www.wp.com/hosi/ Ken Precision Brewing Systems Manufacturer of SS Brew Kettles, 3 Vessel Brew Systems and the MAXICHILLER. Fastest, most efficient wort chiller available ------------------------------ End of judge-digest V1 #1367 **************************** Send subscription cancellations & changes to judge-request at synchro.com. Messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored.