Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 21:52:53 -0400
Message-Id: <199605010152.VAA11033 at synchro.com>
From: owner-judge-digest at synchro.com
To: judge-digest at synchro.com
Subject:   judge-digest V1 #1264
Reply-To: judge at synchro.com
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judge-digest               Tuesday, 30 April 1996       Volume 01 : Number 1264

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       J u d g e N e t   -   t h e   b e e r   j u d g e   d i g e s t
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 Moderator:        Chuck Cox          <chuck at synchro.com>
 Archivist:        Spencer Thomas     <spencer at umich.edu>
 Publisher:        SynchroSystems     <info at synchro.com>

 Submissions:      judge at synchro.com
 Administration:   judge-request at synchro.com
 Archive:          http://realbeer.com/spencer/judge
 BJCP info:        geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com

 ============================================================================
 contents:

 Re: judge etiquette
 Articles of Incorportation

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From: jdecarlo at mail04.mitre.org (John A. DeCarlo)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 96 09:25:17 -0400
Subject: Re: judge etiquette

Bob T. writes:
>Donna Bersani makes a point about judges dissing stewards.
>I'm sorry you got stuck with a nit wit.

And, like any large group, there are nit wits and idiots (such set almost
certainly includes me from time to time, so I know whereof I speak).  

Let me just say that if Joanne was the steward for Fruit Beers on Sunday,
she helped considerably and gave us food for thought on occasion.  I hope
she considers judging.  I hope I wasn't rude when I disagreed in our
discussions.

>I always stress to the judges that stewarding is supposed to be
>a learning experience for the stewards. I see it as an important first step
>in becoming a judge.

It was certainly the key event in getting me to be a judge.  I was always
intimidated at brew club meetings since I knew so little about beer styles
and couldn't identify the flavors the judges could (back when there were
only a handful of real judges around).

When I stewarded I found that I could understand what the judges were saying
about the beers being judged.  At that point I thought I could possibly
learn this craft.  

I may still learn how to be a good judge someday, you never know.


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From: ddavison at execpc.com (Dennis Davison)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 16:28:45 -0500
Subject: Articles of Incorportation

>From: Chuck Cox <chuck at synchro.com>
>Subject: Articles of Incorporation
>
>Upon review of the recently disclosed Articles of
>Incorporation, I found the following item:
> 
>> 5. All individuals who are certified as beer judges by the 
>> Corporation shall become members of the Corporation.  No 
>> member of the Corporation shall accept compensation for 
>> evaluating beer, but may be reimbursed for any reasonable 
>> expenses incurred as a result of doing so.
> 
>While I suspect the intent was to prohibit compensation
>for judging sanctioned competitions, the article as 
>written does technically preclude most brewery professionals,
>especially tasters from membership.  Further, I feel it is
>inappropriate for the BJCP to attempt such broad control our
>activities outside of sanctioned competitions.
>

The inital intent was that judges would not receive compensation from the
organization. This was my mistake. We had opted to drop mention of
compensation altogether, I relayed that to our attorney, to drop that
section. When I posted the Articles, I thought I had done the old cut to
article #5, but apparently did not. I am sorry for the confusion.

>In addition, I am disturbed at the secretive manner in which
>the Articles were written and approved.

Secretly? They were written by the ONLY attorney that stepped up and offered
HELP. This helped kill two birds with one stone. One was to get someone to
do it, and the other was the pure fact that we could have argued for 6
months as to what State to Incorporate in.

>I urge the Board to clarify the above Article of Incorporation 
>and to start operating in a more open and accountable manner.

Flame suit is going on here guys. The BJCP is a democratic organization with
each region represented by one individual, which you the membership voted
into office. None of the Board members expected the amount of time this
would consume out of our already busy schedules. You, the membership, have a
voice to your representative. Unless the membership is prepared to pay
substancial dues to have a full time person doing all the work, then don't
complain. If you want to pay $50 a year, to have a one person take the bull
by the horns, then we'll consider it. As far as operating in a more open
manner, the past 6 weeks not much has been going on. Why? Because, I haven't
had time. My employers demands on me, my commitment to the 1st round Chicago
site, Small things dealing with Scott and Russ that I have had address before
anything else, Trying to work out something with the AHA over future point
awards, Boston Beer Company World Homebrew from last year and this year
(July/Aug), and lets not forget two nights that I actually had for myself
in the past 6 weeks has been taking it's toll.

I will make myself accountable. So much so, that I will resign as
Chair/President of the BJCP if 51% of the judges on Judgenet so wish it.
Lets face it guys, this isn't a judging organization, it's a brewing
organization. When the test you take deals more with brewing than judging,
and when you get bucked every which way when you want to make changes
hopefully for the better, it's not worth it. Sure some of the changes may
not work. None of this is set in stone, and can be changed if they don't.

The Board had two major responibilities to handle, the major one was to keep
the BJCP alive. We have done this with the support all of the BJCP judges out
there. Number two was to draft new by-laws. Until those by-laws get approved
(which according to Russ looks like they will), we, your elected board still
were operating under the old by-laws. This did not give us any real control.
The co-directors had all of it. We only had one co-director / exam
director. Co-Director / Exam Director, do you see the problems? Nothing
wrong with Scott, and I'm glad he's there. It's that after Pat resigned, did
we waste time in modifing the existing by-laws to drop the co-director and
replace with exam director, or do we just wing it, and play some things by
ear? We've been winging it guys. Now that it looks like the Board will have
the control, we can get our asses moving into the real problems of the BJCP.

While I still have a flame suit on, I am pissed at those judges that don't
plan on judging at AHA sanctioned only competitions, and giving the damn
reason as NOT being able to get points for AHA comps. That's Bull Shit. I'm
getting tired of people trying to rehash a feud. The AHA and HWBTA are
behind us. We are working on something with the AHA. When it's worked out,
you will be informed. Until we reach an impass or make a deal, all AHA
sanctioned competition will have points recorded. I know that no matter what
the deal is, it won't satify everyone. Big deal. So What. You'll complain
that you weren't made aware so you could have a voice. That's not how
business is done gentlemen. One small group or one person does it for the
benefit of the others. The key word here is benefit. No matter what becomes
of the deal we are trying to work out, it's for the benefit of the BJCP. And
yes, I know the AHA stands to benefit also. Pending Board approval, this
deal could be wrapped up in New Orleans.

I'm also tired of hearing the excuss that they don't support the BJCP, let's
cut the crap. You became a judge to have fun and have some wonderful beers that
you may never have again. Just think about all of those wonderful beers
you'll be missing. I'm glad because it'll just leave more for me.

Speaking of New Orleans, I had initally hoped to get a Forum for BJCP judges
set up. Last January, I called Karen and asked if I could do it, provided I
didn't schedule it during any of their activities. She gave me a green
light. Now that I have a schedule in front of me. I'm sorry to say that
there isn't anytime. (And don't say it, it's not a plot). They are starting
an hour later every day. More time to sleep in (hasn't this always been a
problem). There is one time block that could be open, but I'm leaving this
opened in case the Board and AHA would need to meet over the deal.


Dennis Davison                                       ddavison at execpc.com

                           BJCC Midwest Region
                         Chairperson of the BJCP


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End of judge-digest V1 #1264
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