Return-Path: listadm at synchro.com Received: from srvr8.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr8.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.81]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA15242 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 03:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from totalrecall.rs.itd.umich.edu (totalrecall.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.144.16]) by srvr8.engin.umich.edu (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA14706 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 03:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by totalrecall.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.3) with X.500 id DAA00490; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 03:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uu6.psi.com by totalrecall.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.3) with SMTP id DAA00486; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 03:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA29354 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 96 01:36:46 -0400 Received: (from listadm at localhost) by synchro.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA11877 for judge-recipients at synchro.com; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 01:10:02 -0400 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 01:10:02 -0400 Message-Id: <199604100510.BAA11877 at synchro.com> To: judge-recipients at synchro.com (JudgeNet Recipients) From: judge-owner at synchro.com (JudgeNet Administrator) Reply-To: judge at synchro.com (JudgeNet) Errors-To: judge-error at synchro.com Precedence: bulk Subject: JudgeNet Digest #1251 (Apr 09, 1996) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ JudgeNet Digest #1251 Tue 09 Apr 1996 JudgeNet The Beer Judge Digest digest submissions: judge at synchro.com administrative requests: judge-request at synchro.com send cancellations & rank updates to the administrative address messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored WWW Archives: http://www.umich.edu/~spencer/beer/judge Editor: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publishers: SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery Anti-Prohibitionists may also be interested in LiBeerty: The Libertarian Beer Digest Subscription info: libeerty-request at synchro.com For BJCP General Information contact: geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Contents: By-laws (Bill Giffin) competition reminder (Ray Brice) Re: Judge points at WHC ("Francois Espourteille") My insensitivity (Scott Bickham) Re: cooperation / Madison events plug / finding event calendars (Spencer W Thomas) Re: cooperation / Madison events plug / finding event calendars (hollen) WHC Points ("Rad Equipment") WHC Points Date: 4/9/96 Time: 7:03 Experience Points (Fred Hardy) WHC: Points and Dollars (PGarofal) Re : Bylaws Incorportation papers (Dennis Davison) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Apr 1996 10:33:48 -0500 From: Bill Giffin Subject: By-laws Good morning, Scott Bicham says: >I thank BIll **(caps)** Giffen **(sp)** for posting what must have been a careful review of the BJCP by-laws. He mentioned that there were more spelling mistakes in that document than in his posting, but after re-reading the by-laws, I could only find a few places where I would replace "less than" by "fewer than". I said: >Any spelling errors in the above are not nearly as bad as the errors in the by-laws we have to vote on. It is obvious that the good DOCTOR CAN'T READ. Scott said: >Bill also comments on the absence of a description of the purpose of the BJCP. Is it only my copy where section 1.2 reads, "The purpose of the BJCP is stated, as required by law, in the Articles of Incorporation filed with the state of New York?" Since Bill is an expert in these sorts of matters, he should realize that the purpose cannot be written into the by-laws, since the by-laws are amendable, while anything in the articles of incorporation are not easily changed. In case you're wondering, the purpose of the BJCP, more or less, is to Certify Beer Judges. By having section 1.2 in the proposed by-laws the purpose was included in the by-laws even though the membership was not let in on the purpose of the BJCP. Again the good DOCTOR has difficulty reading and understanding. More from Scott: >Note that the BJCP was incorporated in New York thanks to the efforts of James Hilton, who volunteered his services to the program. The volunteer aspect of the BJCP will hopefully enable us to keep the dues at $0.00, though I would personally like to see them doubled. And sadly enough I feel that we got exactly what we paid for, I am of the opinion that Scott did not take the time to carefully read the by-laws we were sent to vote for or against. Scott wears his ignorance on his sleeve as though it were a badge of honor. His sarcastic manner shows that he has little understanding of the subject he is criticizing. Will the good DOCTOR read your exam as well as he reads and understands the posts in this digest? Bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:08:29 -0600 (MDT) From: Ray Brice Subject: competition reminder Reminder:, The 3rd Annual Naked Pueblo Homebrew Competition will take place Saturday April 21st at: Trios in the Plaza Palomino corner of Swan and Ft. Lowell Tucson, Arizona First Round Judging will begin at 10:00. Best of Show Judging will begin at 2:00. Awards ceremony will begin at 5:00. This competition will be held in conjunction with "The Great Tucson Beer Festival." All judges and stewards will be given free admittance to this event. This is an AHA and BJCP sanctioned competition featuring all AHA categories. Please contact John Francisco (520) 743-7961; cisco at tabasco.ccit.arizona.edu or Jim Liddil (520) 881-8768; jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu for a free entrants packet. Complete on-line registration for entries and judges is available on the Competition Homepage (http://www.hwr.arizona.edu/agu/oph/naked.html). Winner's of each category will receive awards. Best of Show will receive a $100 gift certificate to the Home Brewery in Sierra Vista, Arizona. 2nd and 3rd place in each category will receive ribbons. Cheers, John Francisco ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:13:22 -0400 From: "Francois Espourteille" Subject: Re: Judge points at WHC On 04 Apr 96 Bill Slack wrote: > What did everyone receive for judging at the Boston Beer Company World > Homebrew Competition? When the personal competition > records came out recently, I was recorded as 2.5 points for that > event. I also received 2.5 points, which made little sense unless 0.5 pts were awarded per flights judged. >Dan Hall was given three points. I did five flights plus two > second rounds and nearly 80 beers in two days. Dan says he didn't do > signicantly more than that, if at all. So much for the 0.5 pts per flight theory. I also judged 5 flights plus three second rounds (which are just as long as a flight). > > What did everyone else get? How much did you judge? I think the > organizers should give identical points to all (whether 2.5 or 3) for > two days work. There's no way anyone was keeping track of who did > what, so the only fair scheme is consistent points for all who judged > two full days. And considering the ratio of beers to judges, three > points is definitely warranted. Sounds like a reasonable suggestion. I probably judged 85 beers and should definitely qualify for 3 if 3 is the maximum. Of course, given the general chaos at that event it is not surprising to see some inconsistencies in points awarded. On the ratio of beer to judges, it might be important to award as many points as possible to those of us who came (and stayed) for the two days as it will probably influence my decision of doing this a second time. > Can anyone shed light on this? > I doubt it, but it's worth a shot. Other judges I was with also received 2.5 pts for five flights, so it seems that those that were awarded 3 pts lucked out. Cheers Francois - -- ******************************************************************************** Francois Espourteille espouf at rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnich Institute Troy, NY "Pour ce qui est de manger qui ne peut ne peut, pour ce qui est de boire on ce force" ******************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:48:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Scott Bickham Subject: My insensitivity It has been pointed out that my posting entitled, "Get Blind Billy some Glasses," is not very sensitive to those who are visually impaired. If Bill Giffen is in this category, then I extend my apologies. I still stand by my comments that the by-laws (a) should not contain the purpose of the BJCP and (b) are not riddled with typos. If Mr. Giffen is unable to read, but has a scanner that converts text to voice, then perhaps his mistake can be corrected by upgrading his scanner. I have access to software and equipment that converts text to braille, so I would be happy to send communications in that format if it is necessary. Regards, Scott Bickham - -- ======================================================================== Naval Research Laboratory, Code 6691 E-mail: bickham at dave.nrl.navy.mil Complex Systems Theory Branch Home or BJCP: 7507 Swan Point Way Washington, D.C 20375 Columbia, MD 21045 (202) 404-8632 FAX: (202) 404-7546 (410) 290-7721 ========================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 09:47:55 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas Subject: Re: cooperation / Madison events plug / finding event calendars Bob You can still put your competition on the AHA calendar, whether or not it is AHA-sanctioned. I know, I've done it. E-mail does the trick. =S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 96 07:52:51 PDT From: hollen at vigra.com Subject: Re: cooperation / Madison events plug / finding event calendars >>>>> "Robert" == Robert Paolino writes: Robert> 1a) With more competitions skipping AHA sanctioning in favour Robert> of going with the BJCP, the AHA is less likely to have a Robert> comprehensive listing. Is there/will there be any formal Robert> procedure in place for the BJCP to send listings of BJCP Robert> competitions to the AHA? I brought up a related question about a month ago and got no answers. If the AHA has no official judging program and the BJCP does, why should a competition register with the AHA at all? Yes, it gets you on the Zymurgy calendar and yes it gets you a packet of address/phone listings and mailing labels, but probably half of those are so old as to be useless. Then after the competition, we have to pay *both* BJCP and AHA to record judges points, the AHA fee going to record points to a judging certification program that does not exist. I certainly see being a registered BJCP competition, but currently, what is the point of AHA registration? Could someone please address these issues? thanks, dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com Senior Software Engineer Vigra, San Diego, California ------------------------------ Date: 9 Apr 1996 08:18:02 U From: "Rad Equipment" Subject: WHC Points Subject: WHC Points Date: 4/9/96 Time: 7:03 AM ATTENTION 1995 WHC JUDGES! I have confirmed via the organizers that most people probably did the equivilent of at least 3 sessions on each day of the WHC. In light of this I will reassign points to participating judges. I will continue to go by the organizer's report as far as AM/PM attendence is concerned, however if you attended BOTH days of the event I will assume you did 3 sessions on Sunday and will give you 3 points for the event. So, based on the report I have, anyone who attended one full day will get 1.5 points (maximum allowable by the calendar limit); anyone who attended both full days will get 3 points (maximum allowable event limit); the rest will get points according to the schedule for an event of this size (1 point for the first session attended and .5 points for each additional session attended). I will pull the organizer's report and change those who so qualify. If you want to insure that you get what you think you should get, please e-mail me to draw my attention to your record. I am relying on you to pass the word among the clubs in the area so that non-netters are aware of this as well. I will also include a note in the next newsletter about this. Sorry for the confussion here. Stay calm, we'll take care of it. RW... BEER JUDGE CERTIFICATION PROGRAM c/o Celebrator Beer News - PO Box 375 - Hayward CA 94543 415-502-1070 Russ Wigglesworth, Program Administrator Rad_Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 13:49:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Fred Hardy Subject: Experience Points The discussion of points for BBC's WHC is interesting, since it points up an ongoing problem within the fledgling independent BJCP. The problem, as I see it, is that the current method of awarding points is an artifact of earlier days and is in need of revision. This has been thrashed over before, but I can"t resist one more time. Using a different point structure for "National" competition is clearly an artifact of the AHA/HWBTA days. I have no problem with extra point awards for the AHA NHC. They are the goose that lays the golden egg of homebrewing. As for any other competition, the point award should be uniform. After all, they are all open to entries from home or abroad. In general, all competitions with more than 150 entries (100, or maybe 200?) should award judges 1 point per day of competition with 2 points maximum per event. Events with fewer than 150 entries would award 1 point, period. All stewards at any event would receive 1/2 point per day with a maximum of 1 point per event, except for very large events (>500 entries). BoS judges receive 1/2 point bonus. Limits on number of BoS judges based on number of entries seems a rational approach, but 1 per 25 entries just adds complications. I prefer at least three judges on the BoS panel regardless of number of entries. My point table is: Asst. BoS Entries Organizer Org. No. Pts. Judge Steward 1 - 149 2 0.5 3 0.5 1 0.5 150-299 3 1 3 0.5 1/day* 0.5/day** 300-499 5 2 4 0.5 1/day* 0.5/day** >500 7 3 4 0.5 1/day* 1/day** AHA NHC 9 5 2 1.5/day+ 1/day * maximum of 2 points ** maximum of 1 point + maximum of 2.5 points BoS points are in addition to points earned by judging. This eliminates squabbles over how to define a flight, session, etc. It recognizes that the contribution of judges is basically the same for small and large events. A judge at a 300 entry event with 30 judges should not receive more points than a judge at a 50 entry event which has only 5 judges. Actually, judges at the smaller competitions often judge more styles than judges at very large events. Think about it. ============================================================================== We must invent the future, else it will | happen to us and we will not like it. | [Stafford Beer, "Platform for Change"] | email: fcmbh at access.digex.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 16:29:03 -0500 From: PGarofal at USCCMAIL.uscc.bms.com Subject: WHC: Points and Dollars For the record, I judged at the World Homebrew Competition and received 2.5 points. I did two "normal" flights on Saturday (around 13 to 15 entries), and one flight (about 15 or so) on Sunday morning. I did not do a fourth flight on Sunday afternoon, but I had a 5+ hour drive home. If that costs me a half point, so be it. More to the point (at least for me) is this: did Sam Adams ever come through with their promised donation to the BJCP? Previous queries to this effect have been met with deafening silence. It may make a difference in whether or not _I_ travel (at fairly considerable expense) to any such event in the future. FWIW, it was an interesting event, if a bit muddled in purpose; it was never made entirely clear just what level of feedback (if any) was expected, for one thing. Judges were treated quite well, though I did hear horror stories about 400 brown ales, many seemingly from starter kits. The biggest problem was that the ratio of judges to entries was quite low. The Boston Beer Company certainly did get their money's worth from the judges who participated! Peter Garofalo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 16:21:07 -0500 From: ddavison at execpc.com (Dennis Davison) Subject: Re : Bylaws Incorportation papers CERTIFICATE OF INCORPORATION OF THE BEER JUDGE CERTIFICATION PROGRAM, INC. UNDER SECTION 402 OF THE NOT-FOR-PROFIT LAW The undersigned, a natural person of the age of eighteen or over, desiring to form a corporation pursuant to the provisions of the Not-for-Profit Corporation Law, does hereby certify that: 1. The name of the Corporation is The Beer Judge Certification Program, Inc. 2. The Corporation is a corporation as defined in subparagraph (a) (5) of Section 102 of the Not-for-Profit Corporation Law and shall be a Type A corporation under Section 201 of the Not-for-Profit Corporation Law. 3. The Corporation is formed for the purpose of certifying individuals as competent evaluators of home-brewed and commercial beer and for certifying competitions in which home-brewed and commercial beer is judged. In furtherance of these purposes, the Corporation shall: a. Administer a testing program through which an individual may qualify as a certified beer judge; b. Administer an educational program for individuals already certified as beer judges and those seeking to become certified to increase their knowledge of different beer styles and beer-evaluation techniques. c. Certify that persons sponsoring a competition during which beer will be judged are complying with competition standards issued by the Corporation and are utilizing the services of judges certified by the Corporation. 4. In furtherance of the foregoing purposes, the Corporation shall have all the general powers enumerated in Section 202 of the Not-for-Profit Corporation Law together with the power to solicit grants and contributions for any corporate purpose and the power to maintain a fund or funds of real or personal property for any corporate purposes. The Corporation shall have the right to exercise all other powers which are, or hereafter may be, conferred by law upon a corporation organized for the above purposes or incidental to the conferred powers. 5. All individuals who are certified as beer judges by the Corporation shall become members of the Corporation. No member of the Corporation shall accept compensation for evaluating beer, but may be reimbursed for any reasonable expenses incurred as a result of doing so. 6. Notwithstanding any other provision of these articles, the Corporation is organized exclusively for the pleasure and recreation of its members, as specified in Section 501(c)(7) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as it may be amended, 26 U.S.C. ' 501(c)(7) (or any corresponding provision of any future United States internal revenue law), and shall not carry on any activities not permitted to be carried on by a corporation exempt from Federal income tax under Section 501(c)(7). 7. The Corporation is not formed for pecuniary profit or for financial gain and no part of its assets, income or profit shall be distributed or inure to the benefit of any private individual. 8. Nothing herein shall authorize the Corporation, directly or indirectly, to engage in or include among its purposes any of the activities mention in Section 404(a) through (v) of the Not-for-Profit Corporation Law. 9. No substantial part of the activities of the Corporation shall be devoted to carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting to influence legislation. 10. The office of the Corporation shall be located in New York County, New York. The books and records of the Corporation shall be held by Russ Wigglesworth, PO Box 751271, Petaluma, CA 94975. 11. The names and addresses of the initial directors until the first annual meeting, each of whom is of full age, are as follows: Name Address a. Dennis Davison 4025 S.65th #14, Greenfield, WI 53220 b. Darryl Richman 15600 NE 8th #B1-327 Bellevue, WA 98008 c. Martin Lodahl 4966 Bell Road Auburn, CA 95602 d. Greg Walz 3327 Allendorf Street Pittsburgh, PA 15204 e. Roman Davis 6234 Caslon Court Charlotte, NC 28270 f. Steve Daniel 902 Dellore Lane League City, TX 77573 g. Bob Gorman 1A Dexter Avenue Waltham, MA 02154 12. The Secretary of State is hereby designated as agent of the Corporation upon whom process against it may be served. The post office address to which the Secretary shall mail a copy of any process against the Corporation served upon him is BJCP, Inc. c/o Russ Wigglesworth PO Box 751271 Petaluma, CA 94975 13. In the event of dissolution, the assets and property of the Corporation remaining after payment of expenses and the satisfaction of all liabilities shall be distributed for the not-for-profit purposes of the Corporation to such organizations as shall qualify under Section 501(c) of the Internal Revenue Code. IN WITNESS WHEREOF this certificate has been signed and the statements made herein affirmed as true under the penalties of perjury this *** day of ****, 19** ______________________________ JAMES J. HILTON, Incorporator 201 Coudert Place South Orange, NJ 07079 Dennis Davison ddavison at execpc.com BJCC Midwest Region Chairperson of the BJCP ------------------------------ End of JudgeNet Digest ************************ -------