Return-Path: listadm at synchro.com Received: from srvr8.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr8.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.81]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA19124 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 1996 02:54:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from twins.rs.itd.umich.edu (twins.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.39]) by srvr8.engin.umich.edu (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA05815 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 1996 02:54:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by twins.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.4/2.2) with X.500 id CAA28022; Tue, 26 Mar 1996 02:54:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from uu6.psi.com by twins.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.4/2.2) with SMTP id CAA28017; Tue, 26 Mar 1996 02:54:14 -0500 (EST) Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA13036 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 96 02:30:57 -0500 Received: (from listadm at localhost) by synchro.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA04519 for judge-recipients at synchro.com; Tue, 26 Mar 1996 01:10:01 -0500 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 01:10:01 -0500 Message-Id: <199603260610.BAA04519 at synchro.com> To: judge-recipients at synchro.com (JudgeNet Recipients) From: judge-owner at synchro.com (JudgeNet Administrator) Reply-To: judge at synchro.com (JudgeNet) Errors-To: judge-error at synchro.com Precedence: bulk Subject: JudgeNet Digest #1241 (Mar 25, 1996) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ JudgeNet Digest #1241 Mon 25 Mar 1996 JudgeNet The Beer Judge Digest digest submissions: judge at synchro.com administrative requests: judge-request at synchro.com send cancellations & rank updates to the administrative address messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored WWW Archives: http://www.umich.edu/~spencer/beer/judge Editor: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publishers: SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery Anti-Prohibitionists may also be interested in LiBeerty: The Libertarian Beer Digest Subscription info: libeerty-request at synchro.com For BJCP General Information contact: geninfo at bjcp.synchro.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Contents: Re: Specialty / Fruit / Herb Controversy (Sullivan51) no recipe (919) 405-3632" Specialty Beers - Honey? (TMartyn) Alt - again!!!!! (Fred Hardy) Sixth Annual March Mashfest Results (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist)) Specialty Beers (Alan Folsom) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 07:40:39 -0500 From: Sullivan51 at aol.com Subject: Re: Specialty / Fruit / Herb Controversy Perhaps the solution to this controversy is: * eliminate these categories (I'd shed no tears) * create a new herb/fruit category and eliminate the separate categories * lump all fruit, herb and specialty beers into a new category called Funky Beer Most beers entered in competitions in these categories are pretty awful. I don't think many of us go out of our way to volunteer to judge these. I've had the pleasure of judging specialty beers before and I don't relish the idea of having to do it again. My disdain for judging these beers has little to do with the idea behind the category itself. I have had some good beers in these categories. But the awful outweigh the good. Rather, I think the guidance presented in the Papazian beginner book (homebrewers bible?) leads novices to brew funky beer before they have successfully brewed any thing else. A lot of these novice funky beers make it into competitions. This is one man's opinion. I know I've probably raised the ire of someone out there who is adept at making garlic pumpkin ale (yum), catnip stout (yum yum) , kiwi sage light lager (yum yum yum) or some other such monstrosity. Now with that all said, I don't really advocate eliminating these categories. We do need a spot for the cross-over categories though. I personally do not believe that fruit / herb beers should be allowed in the specialty category. I believe that the specialty category should be used for those beers brewed with special fermentables or techniques (as defined). It should not be used as a catch-all category. John Sullivan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Mar 96 07:52:09 EST From: "George Danz (919) 405-3632" Subject: no recipe The latest JudgeNet post mentioned a guy who entered a specialty beer that would have been a nice Scotch Ale had it been entered as such by the brewer. The brewer didn't put anything on the form indicating anything "special", so it got dinged badly. How important is the recipe details if a beer is entered into the proper category. Since Judges don't see the recipe when they're judging, who would be able to and/or who WOULD make a distinction? Isn't it too late at that point? Best Regards, George E. Danz Snail Mail Address: gdanz at harris.com PO Box 13996 (919)405-3632 Work Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 (919)405-3651 FAX ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 09:28:59 -0500 From: TMartyn at aol.com Subject: Specialty Beers - Honey? I'd like to make a pitch for considering honey as a specialty ingredient. I use honey frequently; to my besotted little mind, its like a Belgian brewer using candi sugar. It's just another source of fermentables, so why should including honey in the "grain" bill make a beer a specialty, while adding candi-sugar, or brown sugar, or even corn sugar, not? Maybe only because honey isn't used regularly as an ingredient by any of the commercial breweries whose beers define the classic styles. This is more than a question of semantics. About a year ago, I made a honey lager which came out very nicely, and dutifully entered it in two competitions as a classic style specialty beer, on the advice of the organizers. In both cases, the beer was marked very poorly, as the "honey character" wasn't evident. Well, no kidding - too my palate the contribution honey makes isn't overt - no residual flavor, aroma. Rather, like adding corn sugar, it boosts the alcohol level, while keeping a light body, and adds a pleasant dry finish that sets off the hops very nicely. So, evil person that I am, I entered the same beer in a third competition as a North German Pilsner without disclosing that honey was an ingredient. Lo and behold, the beer scored very well (still didn't win, so my skullduggery didn't deprive anyone of a ribbon). How about it? Tom Martyn TMartyn at aol.com Brattleboro, VT ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 11:27:35 -0500 (EST) From: Fred Hardy Subject: Alt - again!!!!! I just received the judges' sheets from a recent competition where I entered, along with some other styles, a Dusseldorf-style altbier. The judges liked it, and complimented its balance, but it scored in the high 20s. What lost points was "too light for style" since the color is roughly 15 SRM (AHA range is 11 - 19), so these judges were looking for something closer to a porter. The big looser was commented on in aroma, flavor and overall impression. It was my excessive use of American hops. One judge even commented that it was a pretty good American pale ale, though a little on the light side (O.G. was 1.048). The hops I used were 5 ozs. of a blend of Saaz, Tettnanger and German Hallertauer with an IBU around 48. All hops were pellets, and added at the start of a 90 minute boil. I guess this is just one more example of Al's (and several others') lament about the lack of understanding of this wonderful style. The beer did have a fault or two, probably from only being lagered two weeks. I have another batch fermenting now, and I think I'll just enjoy it and not waste my time and money entering it in competition. The "American" hops comment of the judges is also an example of judges looking silly because of their brewing insights. We should keep in mind that the beers we're judging may not have been brewed by idiots (mine are). We can comment on chill haze, but probably not the specifics of what caused it. The "color too light" comment and knocking an ingredient which was not there is probably just inexperience (both judges are BJCP recognized). Even the experts can make these kinds of errors when they forget how complex a process making home brew really is. BTW, both judges did a nice job of providing comments, even though they were BS. An organizer would not catch this error which I feel is worse than an almost blank judge sheet. I'd rather send the almost blank sheet and let the entrant think the judge is flaky, than send an erroneous one and prove it. Cheers, Fred ============================================================================== We must invent the future, else it will | happen to us and we will not like it. | [Stafford Beer, "Platform for Change"] | email: fcmbh at access.digex.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 10:24:31 -0700 (MST) From: walter at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist)) Subject: Sixth Annual March Mashfest Results Sixth Annual March Mashfest Results This Mashfest has been our most successful to date. 201 entries were collected and judged Friday and Saturday March 22-23, 1996. The Mash Tongues would like to thank all who entered and all who made the trip to Fort Collins to judge. Best of Show Beer (180 Beer Entries) Tony DeMarse, Greeley CO Brewnion Colony May Q-P Honey Wheat Specialty, Classic Style American Wheat Best of Show Mead (21 Mead Entries) Scott Mills, Ft Collins CO Mash Tongues Mighty Fine Wine Traditional Mead Lagers (19 Entries) First Place Dave Shaffer, Lafayette CO Lizard Head Lager Second Place Cory Buenning, Conifer CO Hop Barley & the Ale'ers Dark Side Lager Third Place Bill Irwin, Littleton Foam on the Range Kolsch 5 Kolsch Pale Ales (19 Entries) First Place Gregory Cross, Rocky Ford CO Broken Heel IPA IPA Second Place Dave Shaffer, Lafayette CO Mullethead Ale Third Place Bill Irwin, Littleton CO Foam on the Range EPA #3 English Pale Ale English Bitters (16 Entries) First Place John Leazer, Ft Collins CO Mash Tongues Firelight ESB English Special Bitter Second Place Patrick Moore, Englewood CO Tingling Nosehair ESB English Special Bitter Third Place Scott Mindrebo, Lake Jackson TX Brew Bayou (Hoppy) Cold-Conditioned Ales (13 Entries) First Place Dave Cuthbert, Ft Collins CO Mash Tongues Uncommon CA Common Second Place Keith Schwols, Ft Collins CO Mash Tongues Alt Enough To Drink Altbier Third Place John Landreman, Colorado Springs CO Wildcard Alt Altbier Scottish Ales & Porters (14 Entries) First Place Dave Shaffer, Lafayette CO Storm Peak Porter Porter Second Place Brian Kelly, Denver CO Deep Wort Pests Porter Porter Third Place Larry Pyeatt, Ft Collins CO Mash Tongues Easy Trails Porter Porter Brown Ales (18 Entries) First Place Larry Pyeatt, Ft Collins CO Mash Tongues Easy Trails Mild Brown Ale Second Place Roger Whyman, Littleton CO The Unfermentables Bear Creek Brown Ale II Third Place Richard Morris, Jr., Colo Springs CO Twink's Brown Ale Stout Beers (20 Entries) First Place Bruce DeBolt, Lake Jackson TX Brew Bayou Oyster Creek Stout Second Place John Leazer, Ft Collins CO Mash Tongues Knockout Stout - Round 4 Third Place Paul Rasey, Milliken CO Brewnion Colony Shamrock Stout Wheat Beers (14 Entries) First Place Mark Groshek, Denver CO The Unfermentables Wunschloses Ungluck Weizenbier German Weizen Second Place John Landreman, Colorado Springs CO Bison Weizen German Weizen Third Place John Adams, Westminister CO Keg Ran Out Club (KROC) A Chicken In Every Pox Belgian & Strong Ales (20 Entries) First Place Richard Mincer, Cheyenne WY High Plains Drafters Trifurcated Trippel Strong Ale Belgian Tripel Second Place Ray Poarch, Arvada CO The Unfermentables (Not Named) Third Place Mark DeMay, Ft Collins CO Mash Tongues Brain Lubrication Smoked & Specialty Beers (12 Entries) First Place Tony DeMarse, Greeley CO Brewnion Colony May Q-P Honey Wheat Specialty, Honey Amer Wheat Second Place Keith Schwols, Ft Collins CO Mash Tongues Dragon's Belch Rauchbier Third Place Brian Walter, Ft Collins CO Mash Tongues Winter Rye Specialty Beer, Rye Fruit & Herb Beers (16 Entries) First Place Jim Suhoza, El Dorado CA Haze Chilly Willy Chile Beer Second Place Scott Mills, Loveland CO Mash Tongues Flower Power Rosewater Beer Third Place William Geithman, Erie CO Keg Ran Out Club (KROC) Son of CBS Raspberry Cocoa Stout Meads (21 Entries) First Place Scott Mills, Loveland CO Mash Tongues Mighty Fine Wine Traditional Mead Second Place John Carlson, Denver CO Hop Barley & the Ale'ers Crystal Meth Mint and Cranberry Honey Third Place Keith Schwols, Ft Collins CO Mash Tongues Hot to Trot Cinnamon, Chili Flakes (Hot Cinnamon) Score sheets should be in the mail this week; target date is Thursday. Direct any comments or questions to Brian Walter, walter at lamar.colostate.edu Brian J Walter | Homebrewer, Certified | walter at lamar.colostate.edu Chem grad - CO St Univ| Beer Judge & President| RUSH Rocks Best! Fort Collins, CO | Mash Tongues Brew Club| GB Packers-11 X NFL Champs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 09:53:07 -0800 From: folsom at ix.netcom.com (Alan Folsom) Subject: Specialty Beers At a contest this past weekend (Keep in mind I had just judged 19 strong ales) I and a couple of other judges were discussing the fruit and vegetable specialty beer category, and how few (if any) vegetable beers we had actually seen. This brought to mind the St. Patrick's Day meal the weekend before, followed by the idea of a Vegetable beer made with cooked cabbage, and creamed corn. In a sense, it would indeed be a classic style beer! My question is, can one enter a contest anonymously? If this idea comes to fruition (or vegition), I'm not sure I want to be associated with it. Al F. ------------------------------ End of JudgeNet Digest ************************ -------