Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 01:10:01 -0500
Message-Id: <199603210610.BAA00770 at synchro.com>
To: judge-recipients at synchro.com (JudgeNet Recipients)
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Subject: JudgeNet Digest #1238 (Mar 20, 1996)

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JudgeNet Digest #1238                              Wed 20 Mar 1996

                               JudgeNet
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contents:

  Re: Change order of scoresheet items? NOT! (John DeCarlo                       )
  Re: Exam scores, Order of Judging sheets (Ed Hitchcock)
  Tasting order and "icebreakers"          (919) 405-3632" <danz at edasich.rtp.semi.harris.com>
  Forms in Electronic Form                 ("Houseman, David L           TR")
  Calibration beer                         (Bill Giffin)
  Icebreaker                               ("Rad Equipment")
  Icebreaker                            Time:7:56 AM     Date:3/20/96
  Icebreaker beers                         (BrewNews)

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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 08:16:55 EST
From: John DeCarlo                        <jdecarlo at mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Change order of scoresheet items? NOT!

"Roger Deschner  " <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU> writes:
>Nope, can't do it that way. Aroma is first for a very sound reason. Some
>of the aroma characteristics in a beer are fleeting, and are quite simply
>gone if you wait very long. Therefore, in Beer Judging 101 class, you are
>taught to smell the beer IMMEDIATELY when it is given to you.

Good point.  I just thought I would add one tidbit that was pointed out to 
me recently indirectly.

Aroma will change in some beers.

I had sniffed my beer immediately after being poured, found a strong floral 
aroma and some slight sweetness--which I wrote down.  However, a few minutes
later, the aroma was almost completely that of cooked corn.  If I hadn't 
gone back to recheck the aroma, it would have gotten past me.

Now maybe a more expert judge would have sensed everything right off the 
bat, but those like me can definitely benefit from all these kinds of tips.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 10:09:13 -0400 (AST)
From: Ed Hitchcock <ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Exam scores, Order of Judging sheets

On Wed, 20 Mar 1996
Bill Giffin wrote:

> I find it very interesting that the exam administrator does not have
> much faith in the tasting portion of the exam either.  Thirty per cent of 
> the exam is the tasting portion and it is invalid based on the words of
> Scot Bickham.  Don't you find it interesting that three equal candidates
> could take the exam at three different times and one could score in the
> 70s, one in the 80s, and one in the 90s all on the basis of the tasting
> portion of the exam.

	Despite problems admitted by the administrator, the scenario you 
mention is pure b*d.  Even as much as 20% variation on the tasting part 
(which is high, but I doubt very much the variation is in fact any 
higher) that translates to a 6% difference in overall score.  So, yes, it 
*might* mean the difference between a high 70 and a low 80 overall, but 
it's just as likely it would make the difference between high and low 
80's (or 70's or 60's).  If, on the other hand, you know someone who got 
zero on the tasting portion when they should have received 100, please 
let us know.

and Roger Deschner wrote:

> Nope, can't do it that way. Aroma is first for a very sound reason. Some
> of the aroma characteristics in a beer are fleeting, and are quite simply
> gone if you wait very long. Therefore, in Beer Judging 101 class, you are
> taught to smell the beer IMMEDIATELY when it is given to you. Don't even
> look at it! SNIFF RIGHT AWAY, write down what you smell, and THEN look at
> the beer. This is why the judging sheet is arranged this way; whatever
> else you do, Boquet/Aroma must remain FIRST.

	What about those large competitions where the beers are poured by 
the stewards and brought to the judges?  

	ed
   ----------------
ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca
the Pick & Fossil Picobrewery
Because there's more to life than just coffee


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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 09:20:04 EST
From: "George Danz (919) 405-3632" <danz at edasich.rtp.semi.harris.com>
Subject: Tasting order and "icebreakers"

First I would agree with Roger Deschner that aroma is first.  I have 
personally experienced how fleeting certain aroma constituents can be.
These don't have to be bad constituents either. I personally have noticed
that the malt aroma (at least for me) seems to be there only briefly.
Maybe I get sensory overload or something.  

The other question I have concerns the icebreaker beers.  I gather that
this is a beer which is drunk just to get conversation going amongst fellow
judges at your table.  I guess this is one way that more experienced judges
can pass on their trade to those less experienced.  For that reason I think
it serves a good purpose.  Perhaps to aid in this cause, beers with known
faults could be used for this purpose and aid even more in the learning
process.

I've also heard the term "calibration beer".  This beer is purported to 
get the judges "calibrated" to a particular style preparatory to tasting 
that style.  The danger I see in that is that the beer chosen may not be
at its peak or maybe doesn't even fall in the middle of style range for 
body, gravity, alcohol, flavor character, colour and foam stability. Then
you might get "calibrated" to the wrong thing.  The danger of misscalibration
reminds me of a tasting we had for a COC where the style profile was outlined
prior to the tasting of 3 beers competing for the runnoff.  The description of
the style, Duesseldorfer Alt in this case, overemphasized the need for bitterness over maltiness.  In other words, the nice medium-high rounded 
maltiness character was NOT emphasized.  Needless to say, my Alt didn't make
it to the COC Alt competition, but later won a 2nd in the Shamrock competition
in Raleigh.  The point is that it seems possible to me that a calibration 
beer if not chosen very carefully AND is in good condition, could destroy
some truly great beers if those beers are forced to 'live down to' the sample.
It might be better to just go with the style guidelines, IMHO :)

Best Regards,

George E. Danz                    Snail Mail Address:
gdanz at harris.com                  PO Box 13996
(919)405-3632 Work                Research Triangle Park, NC 27709
(919)405-3651 FAX             


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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 11:25:00 EST
From: "Houseman, David L           TR" <DLH1 at trpo3.tr.unisys.com>
Subject: Forms in Electronic Form


Does anyone have the forms normally sent in competition packages (current 
style guide, entry/recipe form, label form, and judge/steward entry form) in 
electronic form so that they can be attached to a competition posting (or 
pointed to) in order to provide a complete competition package via EMAIL?

TIA

Dave Houseman
dlh1 at trpo3.tredydev.unisys.com

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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 11:23:26 -0600
From: Bill Giffin <billg at maine.com>
Subject: Calibration beer

Good morning,

When you have a moderate to large competition having a calibration beer or
what ever you want to call it take valuable time, 20 minutes to half an
hour.  The calibration beer truly doesn't improve the judging yet it will
cause your competition to run longer.

Bill


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Date: 20 Mar 1996 08:23:44 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Icebreaker

Subject:  Icebreaker                            Time:7:56 AM     Date:3/20/96

Fred Hardy mentioned his concerns about a poor example of a style doing more
harm when used as a "calibration" beer (let's use this forum to select an
alternate name for this "first beer" and agree to promote it over the
misleading "calibration beer"). I believe it was Al's supposition of this very
occurrence that began this discussion.

I agree, this "first beer" should never be held up as an ideal example and the
judges should be warned against comparing the rest of the flight to it. The
only exception, as I previously stated, is when the category is for clones of
a specific commercial brew like Anchor Steam(r) or Guinness Stout (in one of
it's many manifestations). And then the example beer should be available
throughout the flight so it can be consulted and compared to the entries.

The only reason I would continue to prefer to see a "first beer" be in the
style of the flight would be to allow the judges to focus on the specific
characteristics of the style while they break their ice. If an example of the
specific style is not available any middle of the road beer will do. The key
is to avoid strong flavors which could interfere with the real beers of the
flight by dampening the judges palates.

RW...

Russ Wigglesworth (INTERNET: Rad_Equipment at radmac1.ucsf.edu - CI$: 72300,61)
UCSF Dept. of Radiology, San Francisco, CA (415) 476-3668 / Home (707)
769-0425

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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 18:22:56 -0500
From: BrewNews at aol.com
Subject: Icebreaker beers

If a judge is uncomfortable judging an icebreaker beer for fear that his or
her palate may be ruined for the remainder of the day, don't drink it.
Instead, enjoy a glass of water, a piece of bread and the aroma of your
freshly sharpened pencil.

Phil Doersam
Southern Draft Brew News

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