Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 12:06:29 -0500
Message-Id: <199602181706.MAA03446 at synchro.com>
To: judge-recipients at synchro.com (JudgeNet Recipients)
From: judge-owner at synchro.com (JudgeNet Administrator)
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Precedence: bulk
Subject: JudgeNet Digest #1215 (Feb 18, 1996)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

JudgeNet Digest #1215                              Sun 18 Feb 1996

                               JudgeNet
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contents:

  Re:Degree of Difficulty                  (JCalen)
  Winners of 1995 Sam Adams WHBC           (STROUDS)
  Re: JudgeNet Digest #1214 (Feb 15, 1996) ("Francois Espourteille")
  Blind Billy-- --rantings and flamings    ("Martin Stokes")
  Re: Sam Adams WHBC, 1996                 (Michael L. Hall)
  re: Sam Adams results                    (Btalk)
  Poor Bill                                (SIR ROB BATES)
  From Norman Dickenson                    ("Bill Giffin")

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Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 23:53:45 -0500
From: JCalen at aol.com
Subject: Re:Degree of Difficulty

Judges face the dilemma of choosing one beer for first place from many that
qualify. I hope you understand it like I do. It's not just, "I like this, you
like that". It's also, "We like this *AND* that".

>From Jim Ellingson (JudgeNet #1209):
>Any of us would be happy with *either* as the BOS, (my emphasis - JC)
   
And it's not just BoS, collapsed categories, a category w/ subcats and even a
subcat on a good day will see this. Brewers are getting better, it'll happen
more often.

Some judges are using an informal handicap where the beer that's "harder to
make" is awarded the prize. Between Fred Hardy and myself, I hope the case
has been made why this approach is unfair (JudgeNets #1208 to #1211).

We're beer judges, so of course we've focused on the judging side of the
matter, but that's not the real problem. The problem is the prize structure.

I think the best and fairest approach is to award prizes as many times as
they're earned.

Since that'll never happen, when the prize can be split, such as gift
certificates, they should be combined as needed and split among the winning
brewers.

When the prize is unsplittable, such as a kegging system, the lottery
approach that Fred proposes in JudgeNet #1211 is the only fair way to go.
Write it into the rules so there's no hard feelings later.

Tom Leith's reaction to that (JudgeNet #1213):
>What makes chance more valid than considered judgement?

Tom, the considered judgement is that the beers are equal. Make a compelling
case why handicapping a beer style is fair and I'll do it.

I'm getting sorry I started this thread. I think if I find myself faced with
equal beers, I'll just toss a coin where no-one else can see and fight for
that winner.

Regards,
John Calen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:02:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: STROUDS at cliffy.polaroid.com
Subject: Winners of 1995 Sam Adams WHBC

I thought that the winners had been announced in some other forum (HBD??), but 
maybe not.....Anyway, here is the information I have:

The first round of the BBC's homebrew contest was held the weekend of Nov. 
18-19, 1995 at the Copley Hotel in Boston.  1,629 entries were winnowed down to 
10 finalists:

Lagers
Doppelbock:
	Pete Rega, N. Chelmsford, MA
Schwarzbier:
	Jeffrey Grisold, Victoria, BC, Canada
Bohemian Pilsner:
	Alan Pryor, Southbury, CT

Ales
American Pale Ale:
	James Simpson, Ridgewood, NY
India Pale Ale:
	Dave Hedlicka, Ashland, NH
Robust Porter:
	Bob Zamitas, Santa Fe, NM

Specialties
Smoked Brown Ale:
	Mike Hufnagel, Cincinnati, OH
Peach Cream Ale:
	Susan Ritter, Downington, PA
Specialty Wheat Beer:
	David Carter, Shrewsbury, MA
Hazelnut Brown Ale:
	Doug and Vicki Parker, Leesburg, FL


The 10 winning brewers were brought to BBC's Jamaica Plain (Boston) brewery in 
early December and their recipes were brewed there on a 10-barrel batch 
size. 

On January 19th, an august judging panel consisting of Joseph Owades, Dave 
Grinnell (head brewer at the brewery), Michael Jackson, Jim Koch, Dan Hall, and
some guy named Steve :-) met at the JP brewery to taste the 10-barrel batches
and pick one winner from each category. 

The winning beers were the Schwarzbier, the American Pale Ale, and the Hazelnut 
Brown Ale.  The BBC is planning on producing these beers and marketing them 
nationwide later this year.

Steve Stroud

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:20:13 -0500
From: "Francois Espourteille" <espouf at rpi.edu>
Subject: Re: JudgeNet Digest #1214 (Feb 15, 1996)

On JN1214 Fred Hardy wrote:


> It is legitimate for a judge to make a constructive comment about a
> bottle, such as fillage levels.

I would just like to make a small observation concerning fill level.  It
seems that more and more people keg their beers lately, as I have been doing.
 I have noticed that, even with the best technique using a good
counter-pressure filler, it can be quite challenging to exclude air from the
beer.  While the resulting oxidation does not usually impart the cardboardy
and other usual notes, it does damage the hop nose considerably.  Especially
with hoppy beers like IPA and the like (which then travel and may not be
stored at optimal temperature).  As a result, I now fill to the top (or
nearly so) my keg entries with much better results.  The judges do mention
the high fill, but no points are lost and the beer is in much better shape.
 The judge comment itself is unfounded since the fill level applies really to
a bottle conditioned beer and not a counter-pressured filled bottle.  These
days when I judge and find a high fill and no sediments I keep my comments to
myself since I don't know how the entry was prepared.  A minor topic, but
none the less of some importance.

Cheers

Francois Espourteille.

- -- 
********************************************************************************
Francois Espourteille						espouf at rpi.edu
Rensselaer Polytechnich Institute
Troy, NY

	      "Pour ce qui est de manger qui ne peut ne peut, 
	          pour ce qui est de boire on ce force"

********************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:27:47 EDT
From: "Martin Stokes" <mstokes at apollo.umenfa.maine.edu>
Subject: Blind Billy-- --rantings and flamings

A partial defense of Bill Giffin by a brewer who knows him personally, 
who has learned from him, who respects his brewing and judging 
ability, especially his knowledge of beer styles, and who sometimes 
even agrees with what he says if not the way that he says it;  and 
yes I did run for election in the NE, finished 2nd)

There has been much accusing and flaming in all directions around 
Bill recently, the most recent suggestion being to "ignore him, maybe 
he'll go away."(Tom Fitzpatrick).  I would like to point out that 
IMHO Bill is an excellent brewer who has been very successful in 
competitions,  he is an excellent judge from whom many of us could 
learn much,  and he was a very knowledgeable (sp?) CPA.  He also 
makes SOME VERY VALID POINTS in his postings.  The problem is that he 
expresses himself in Giffinese not the best Queen's English or even 
Newt's best American.  Unfortunately people get too upset by his 
style and miss the points that he is making.  Yes we've told him this 
before, with very little effect, but what other brewers do you know in 
the Northeast who've been severely criticized for their verbage, 
attitude, approach, or inability to interact adeqately with others, 
particularly in committee situations.  I can think of several.

If we ignore these people they won't go away and neither will Blind 
Billy but addressing the issues, answering the questions and solving 
the problems will help.  Problems like bank accounts, or lack 
thereof, establishing non-profit tax exempt status, incorporation in 
the near future, resolution of possible historical problems with the 
IRS, new bye-laws (I know, they're coming, they've been coming for 
awhile), liability insurance to cover our butts (and there's a lot of 
butt in the BJCP!)  Billy won't go away and neither will these 
issues.

And this won't be the end of it.  There'll be other issues raised and 
he'll find something else that people will think he's ranting about, 
and if he doesn't Brews Stevens will.

Sorry for the length, hope my English view of grammar and spelling 
meets with your approval.  All comments, flames and checks gracefully 
accepted.

                  Martin Stokes
                      (The Maniacal professor)
                      
Beer, wine, silage, rumen digestion, it's all fermentation chemistry. 
 Carbohydrate to a waste product of a microorganism.  
   
 186 N Fourth St             Home phone  (207) 827-5659
  Old Town ME 04468          Work phone  (207) 581-2737
 STOKES at MAINE.MAINE.EDU      Work fax    (207) 581-2744

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 09:56:57 MST
From: hall at galt.c3.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall)
Subject: Re: Sam Adams WHBC, 1996

gellym at aviion.persoft.com (brewmaster Mitch) asks:
> Maybe I've been asleep out here in the Midwest, but where is *this* years 
> winning beer ? Granted, I do not patronize Mr. Kochs product, but I do not
> recall seeing anything about the 1996 winners beer. 
> 
> Can someone refresh my memory ? Who won the 1996 World contest, and what was 
> the style ? 

I don't have all the results, but here's a blurb that I wrote up for our
club newsletter on a local (to me) brewer who did well.

~~~
You all may remember the neophyte brewer from Santa Fe who brought a keg of
some great beer to our picnic last year after winning the Best of Show at the
ABQ Spring Thing. Bob Zamites has gotten another feather in his cap by entering
the giant Boston Beer Co. 1st Annual World Homebrewing Competition and being
one of nine (yes, NINE) finalists out of 1680 entries. He's already been to
Boston (in Dec 95) to brew up a ten barrel batch of his winning robust porter.
The BBC (aka Sam Adams) people plan to commercially produce three winners'
recipes. Ask Bob about it when you see him next.
~~~

Mike Hall
hall at lanl.gov

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 13:12:57 -0500
From: Btalk at aol.com
Subject: re: Sam Adams results

Page 52 of the Feb-March ALe Street News has an article titled "First World
Homebrew COntest Results In".
It says the finalists's beers were judged on Jan 19.

There is a list of the ten finalists.
The three overall winners (best in three categories) are James SImpson of
Ridgewood, NY with an American Pale Ale; Jeffrey Griswold of Victoria, BC,
Canada, with a Bavarian Black Beer; and Lee Parker of Leesburg, FL with a
Hazlenut Brown Ale.

No mention is made of who placed in each of the various categories.

Later,
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 13:15:34 EST
From: WKNN70A at prodigy.com (SIR ROB BATES)
Subject: Poor Bill

It's sad to see someone who's life is so awful that they have to 
spend it attacking those who have volunteered to make the world a 
better place without pay.

I, for one resent being lumped in with people who are "cheating on 
their taxes" once again, because I have a life and some anal 
retentive CPA type wants to change the way I do business.  

I pay, pal, and dearly.  One thing I will never pay for is to have 
some whiner like you run (ruin?) my business or my life for me.

Having survived several tax audits by both the state and the feds, I 
have dealt with petty little Nazi types who would vilify me and 
assassinate my character and that of others for their own self 
promotion.

Go get yourself a government job so you can attack people with 
impunity.

Rob Bates
Past president, HWBTA
West Coast Regional Competition Coordinator, BJCP
Owner, the Reno Homebrewer
Non-control freak

Big Governmant Sucks because it is run by people like Bill.....


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 16:52:40 +0000
From: "Bill Giffin" <billg at giffin.iii.net>
Subject: From Norman Dickenson

Top of the morning to ye all,

I thought I should share Norman Dickenson's thoughts with you all.

Norman said:
"By the way, I won't be entering the AHA National Comp.
this year or any year in the future. Been-there-won-that. Winning is 
only slightly more than a lucky occurrance.   A whole lot of really bad judging
still occurs."

And in another post Norman said:
"At least half of the so-called judges who participate are incompetent." 

Well I guess we all know how Norman feels about half of us.  Which 
half are you in?  How can someone with such negitive views of the 
judges be on the BOD and help guide the BJCP.

Bill

------------------------------

End of JudgeNet Digest
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