From synchro!judge-owner at uu6.psi.com Wed May 3 03:57:50 1995 Status: O X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["10371" "" " 3" "May" "1995" "02:17:40" "EDT" "JudgeNet Administrator" "judge-owner at synchro.com" nil "253" "JudgeNet Digest #1034 (May 03, 1995)" "^Date:" nil nil "5" nil nil nil nil] nil) Received: by judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.12/2.2) with X.500 id DAA14940; Wed, 3 May 1995 03:57:48 -0400 Received: from goodman.itn.med.umich.edu by judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.12/2.2) with SMTP id DAA14935; Wed, 3 May 1995 03:57:47 -0400 Received: from uu6.psi.com by goodman.itn.med.umich.edu with SMTP id AA01980 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for spencer at umich.edu); Wed, 3 May 95 03:57:46 -0400 Received: from synchro.UUCP by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA29037 for ; Wed, 3 May 95 03:37:02 -0400 Received: by synchro.com (smail2.5) id AA20286; 3 May 95 02:17:40 EDT (Wed) Reply-To: judge at synchro.com (JudgeNet) Errors-To: judge-error at synchro.com Precedence: bulk Message-Id: <9505030217.AA20286 at synchro.com> Date: 3 May 95 02:17:40 EDT (Wed) From: judge-owner at synchro.com (JudgeNet Administrator) To: judge-recipients at synchro.com (JudgeNet Recipients) Subject: JudgeNet Digest #1034 (May 03, 1995) JudgeNet Digest #1034 Wed 03 May 1995 JudgeNet The Beer Judge Digest digest submissions: judge at synchro.com administrative requests: judge-request at synchro.com send cancellations & rank updates to the administrative address messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored FTP Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu in /pub/judge WWW Archives: http://guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu/Beer/Judge Gopher Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu Editor: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publishers: SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery Anti-Prohibitionists may also be interested in LiBeerty: The Libertarian Beer Digest Subscription info: libeerty-request at synchro.com Contents: Style and stuff (Bill Giffin) a little levity wouldn't hurt (Bill Slack) Small and Tiny competition (spencer) Competition recipe/entry form (spencer) Re: Checking on Judges (John DeCarlo ) Judgeaholics Anon (Btalk) Calibration again (Dennis Davison) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 May 1995 07:22:26 -0500 From: billg at giffin.iii.net (Bill Giffin) Subject: Style and stuff >Lee C. Bussy says > >Just because the OG on a beer is out of style does not mean that the >taste was out of style. > If the OG is out of style then the beer is out of style wheter or not it tastes out of style and most time it does. We as judges should strive to be able to identify when a beer is not in style and if the beer is out of style then we should not allow it to win or place in the category entered. Perhaps the score sheet should have two boxes at the bottom one to indicate that a beer was un-drinkable and the other to indicate that the beer was out of style therefore no score was assigned in either case. >Algis R Korzonas say > I'm sure that far fewer of us would have been so >outraged by the out-of-style winners if we saw a comment like >"This beer's only fault is that it is too big for the style." Al if the beer is too big for style it is out of style and should not win anything!!! Why do we have style guidelines at all if this is the attitude of the judges. If I had a very good beer in the category and it lost out to a beer that was out of style you can rest assured I would be outraged even more so because the judge realized that the beer was not what it should be and still allowed it to win. >Jeff in Halifax says > >Several of your point (dare I use the word in another context?) ring true >to home. I recently has a judge score my Framboise 5/10 on aroma when >their comments were "wonderful fresh raspberry nose with authentic brett >character" > they were right - it is a pLambic that is simply wonderful to >smell. 50%? If you subtract half the score, I need some reason why you >did. I personally thought the beer would score high in looks, aroma and >body, but would be too sour for inexpereinced lambic drinkers. I was only >half right. > This has been an area where I have seen more errors on the judges part then on any other part of the score sheets I have received. One comment on a cream ale, that managed to win a first place, was " I smell DMS" without stating if that was good or bad but as above the judge reduced the aroma score by a lot. Too many times we have judges who truely are not qualified to judge a category judging them. I agree with Kieran that there should be feed back about the judges scoring of beers. Should it be the organizer or the sanctioning body is the question. I feel that it should fall on the sanctioning body to review the score sheet and provide the feed back to the judges. I have organized competitions sanctioned by both the AHA and HWBTA and other then receiving 50 cents worth of paper and having the points recored neither one did much to improve my competitions or any others as far as I can tell. I feel that the sanctioning body should work for the money we have to pay them for the sanctioning of our competitions. With all the to do about calibration beers I feel that they are a waste of the judges time. Flubbing around with the calibration beer and having to average the scores given by the judges and spending as much as a half hour of the judging time is just pure dumb. May the wind be always at you back, Bill Bill Giffin 61 Pleasant St. Richmond, ME 04357 (207)-737-2015 All you need is a few good friends and plenty to drink because thirst is a terrible thing! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 95 07:42:10 EDT From: wslack!wrs (Bill Slack) Subject: a little levity wouldn't hurt Two funny things happened recently: James Spence sent me notice of my National Judge award along with the usual paraphernalia. Under his signature was typed "Former BJCP Administrator". Otherwise it was the usual offical letter. Glad he's keeping his sense of humor. Sometime previously, I was asked by another judge if I was a National yet. I said I thought so but hadn't heard. Well, says the other judge, you're listed as Certified on Judgenet. And a gustatorial note: The food at the AHA first round in Norwalk CT was far and away the best food I've ever been given for judging beer. Rivals what Paul Correnty serves for the national cider judging. Bill __ wrs at gozer.mv.com (Bill Slack) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 95 11:24:45 EDT From: spencer at med.umich.edu Subject: Small and Tiny competition I've posted a full-length description of this competition to the HBD, or you can find it on "the web" at The First Small and Tiny Homebrew Competition (HWBTA recognized) is designed to reward brewers of "small," flavorful beers. The competition is open only to beers with OG <= 1.043, in two major categories: small (1.035-1.043) and tiny (< 1.035). Judging will take place in Ann Arbor on June 24, 1995. Contact me if you're interested, or if you don't read the HBD, can't access the Web, and would like a copy of the announcement. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 95 11:40:15 EDT From: spencer at med.umich.edu Subject: Competition recipe/entry form Has anyone got a word-processor version of something close to the "standard" AHA entry/recipe form that I could rework for a local competition? Reply by e-mail, please. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 95 12:41:27 EST From: John DeCarlo Subject: Re: Checking on Judges "Kieran O'Connor" writes: >Currently a judge can judge and usually nothing in the way of feedback >comes back to *him*--as a judge--unless the competition organizer reads all >the sheets, catches some poor evaluations, and talks with a judge the day of >the comp. Actually, I would pay some small fee ($1?) to get copies of the forms I filled out. Of course, this would be a logistical problem for many who are judging at a brewery or other location where there are no nearby photocopying facilities. I often wonder what I would think of my forms at a later date, when I am not tired and affected by alcohol. Either way, increasing the quality of judging would be very helpful. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 13:42:20 -0400 From: Btalk at aol.com Subject: Judgeaholics Anon Hey Bob Paolino, Where do I sign up for the 12 pack....er ..step...program? Regards, Bob Talkiewicz,Binghamton, NY ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 1995 20:25:05 -0500 From: ddavison at earth.execpc.com (Dennis Davison) Subject: Calibration again Steve Hamburg has all the data, and most of this is from memory, but here's some of the breakdown info on the calibration beers we served in Chicago last weekend. Bock - Augsburger Dark - Ranged from 24 to 39 with an average of 30 California Common - Anchor Steam - Range 32 to 34 with avg of 33 Weizen - Hacker-Pschorr Hefe - Range 29 to 34 with average of 32 Belgian - Westmalle Dubbel - Range 30 to 40 with average of 34 Does anybody else see a pattern that has emerged here? With the exception of a couple of categories, most average scores were around 33. At least 1/2 of the styles had a 10 point or more variation. If a fresh Anchor Steam, or Hacker Pschorr can't score above 34 then what about the entries you ask? Well The highest scoring beers in those categories were no higher than 35. I'm not bashing any judges here. I know of some very reputable judges that scored these beers, I've judged with some of them myself. All this style of calibration does is get judges in better sync with the style. And if they scored the calibration low, then the score sheets for the entrants will also be scored low. Before I get flamed for that last comment about not knowing what the beers tasted like that the judges scored, I know what one Weizen tasted like. It was a friends that I had at a competition the week before and was scored by other judges as a 40, I judged it in BOS and found it to be 4th best and would have concured with the score he got myself. It didn't even place at the 1st Round of the Nationals. It's only flaw was that it lacked some clove to help balance the flavor. It had all the Banana you'd ever want. I've also had 2 of the 3 Weizen's that went on and the highest scoring Common before. It's been a few months. I don't recall the flavor profiles of those but I know the brewer and he's had some excellent beers. - -- Dennis Davison ddavison at earth.execpc.com Milwaukee, WI ------------------------------ End of JudgeNet Digest ************************