From synchro!judge-owner at uu6.psi.com Mon May 1 03:47:45 1995 Status: O X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["21134" "" " 1" "May" "1995" "02:18:13" "EDT" "JudgeNet Administrator" "judge-owner at synchro.com" nil "537" "JudgeNet Digest #1032 (May 01, 1995)" "^Date:" nil nil "5" nil nil nil nil] nil) Received: by totalrecall.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.12/2.3) with X.500 id DAA03989; Mon, 1 May 1995 03:47:42 -0400 Received: from goodman.itn.med.umich.edu by totalrecall.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.12/2.3) with SMTP id DAA03984; Mon, 1 May 1995 03:47:40 -0400 Received: from uu6.psi.com by goodman.itn.med.umich.edu with SMTP id AA09230 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for spencer at umich.edu); Mon, 1 May 95 03:47:38 -0400 Received: from synchro.UUCP by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA09415 for ; Mon, 1 May 95 03:33:02 -0400 Received: by synchro.com (smail2.5) id AA07895; 1 May 95 02:18:13 EDT (Mon) Reply-To: judge at synchro.com (JudgeNet) Errors-To: judge-error at synchro.com Precedence: bulk Message-Id: <9505010218.AA07895 at synchro.com> Date: 1 May 95 02:18:13 EDT (Mon) From: judge-owner at synchro.com (JudgeNet Administrator) To: judge-recipients at synchro.com (JudgeNet Recipients) Subject: JudgeNet Digest #1032 (May 01, 1995) JudgeNet Digest #1032 Mon 01 May 1995 JudgeNet The Beer Judge Digest digest submissions: judge at synchro.com administrative requests: judge-request at synchro.com send cancellations & rank updates to the administrative address messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored FTP Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu in /pub/judge WWW Archives: http://guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu/Beer/Judge Gopher Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu Editor: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publishers: SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery Anti-Prohibitionists may also be interested in LiBeerty: The Libertarian Beer Digest Subscription info: libeerty-request at synchro.com Contents: Regional Database Administrators (Chuck Cox) Checking on Judges ("Kieran O'Connor") Contradictory Judging Guidelines (John DeCarlo ) "19" beers (John DeCarlo ) purpose of calibration beers (Gordon L. Olson) Calibration beers and point assignment (Craig Pepin) Jan. 7, Santa Roas, CA EXAM (Mmurphy7) Top-down Vs. Bottom Up scoring... (Andrew Patrick) 1st Round Chicago (Dennis Davison) BUZZ-OFF Homebrew Competition ("Houseman, David L [TR]") ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 8:52:12 EST From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox) Subject: Regional Database Administrators The unofficial/provisional BJCP database is now being maintained by a network of regional database administrators coordinated by a national database administrator (me). If you have any questions about working with the new database system or are unsure about who to contact regarding database issues, please email me at chuck at synchro.com. The national database administrator will be responsible for any organization-wide changes or reports. The national database administrator will also be responsible for communications with the national BJCP organization, including the BJCC, directors, and administrators. All regional organizers, competition organizers, exam administrators, and individual judges should now contact their regional database administrator for changes or reports. This includes regional mailing lists, experience point recording, exam scores, changes of address, or requests for regional or individual information. The current database disclosure policy only allows the regional database administrators to release judge's names, states and ranks to the public. All other information, especially addresses and phone numbers, will only be disclosed to individual judges and national and regional BJCP staff. While it is faster to email the database administrators directly, you can also contact them via the bjcp.synchro.com aliases if you are unsure of the address. Here are the current unofficial BJCP database administrators: National (db-nat at bjcp.synchro.com) (actually international) Chuck Cox 16A Jay St. Cambridge, MA 02139 voice: d: 617-547-5113 x222 n: 617-547-7668 fax: 617-492-4466 email: chuck at synchro.com Northeast (db-ne at bjcp.synchro.com) ME, VT, NH, MA, RI, CT, NY, ON, PQ, NS & foreign Kieran O'Connor B9-2 Slocum Hts. Syracuse, NY 13210 voice: (315) 442-7331 email: koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu Mid-Atlantic (db-atl at bjcp.synchro.com) NJ, DE, MD, VA, WV, OH, PA, DC Ed Westemeier 3820 Broadview Dr. Cincinnati, OH 45208 voice: (513) 321-2023 email: hopfen at iac.net Gulf Coast (db-gc at bjcp.synchro.com) FL, TX, LA, AR, OK, MS Al Kinchen 12237 Eunice Dallas, TX 75234 voice: D:(214) 241-4986 N:(214) 241-3706 fax:214-241-7918 email: alkinchen at aol.com Southeast (db-se at bjcp.synchro.com) AL, GA, KY, NC, SC, TN Mike Lelivelt 4912 Timberly Drive Durham, NC 27707 voice: (919) 408-0451 fax: 919-966-8103 email: mjl at uncvx1.oit.unc.edu Midwest (db-mw at bjcp.synchro.com) IL, IN, IA, KS, MO, MN, MI, NE, ND, SD, WI Steve Hamburg 4735 N. Paulina St. Chicago, IL 60640 voice: 312-878-0177 fax: 312-878-9313 email: shamburg at mcs.com Mountain/Northwest (db-nw at bjcp.synchro.com) MT, WY, CO, NM, AZ, UT, ID, OR, WA, AK, AB, BC, SK Darryl Richman 15600 NE 8th #B1-327 Bellevue, WA 98008 voice: W:(206) 936-8783 H: 641-5535 fax: 206-641-5921 email: darrylri at microsoft.com West (db-w at bjcp.synchro.com) CA, NV, HI Russ Wigglesworth 1700 Clairmont Court Petaluma, CA 94954 voice: 415-476-3668 / 707 769-0425 fax: 415-476-4690 email: rad_equipment at radmac1.ucsf.edu - -- Chuck Cox SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:07:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kieran O'Connor" Subject: Checking on Judges The recent thread on socring sheets brings to mind something I will propose to the BJCC once it gets set up. I have a concern about judges who do a poor job of evaluation and continue to do so. Currently a judge can judge and usually nothing in the way of feedback comes back to *him*--as a judge--unless the competition organizer reads all the sheets, catches some poor evaluations, and talks with a judge the day of the comp. Once the comp is over it would be a stretch to see organizers calling judges who poorly filled out sheets. Judges who judge pooorly (no comments, etc) can continue doing so unchecked. It seems ot me that as part of sanctioning, the organizer should have to read the sheets (with assistance if necessary) and photocopy sheets which do not provide decent feedback to the brewer. By this I mean whole sections blank or "smells funny" comments. The organizer would then send in a copy of thesepoor evaluations to the sanctioning body--and if a particular judge's sheets were sent in more than 2 or 3 times--he would be called by his or her regional council, and his scoring discussed. I don't mean to sound big brother about this--but once you take the exam, you can pretty much judge without any evaluation of *your* evaluations. There should be a quaility control check--and it seems to me the perfect place to do that is at (or after) the competitions. Such a quality control mechanism would help educate judges who need a bit of help. Kieran ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kieran O'Connor koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu Syracuse, N.Y. USA In vino veritas; in cervesio felicitas. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 07:29:32 EST From: John DeCarlo Subject: Contradictory Judging Guidelines Tom Leith points out I gave a bad example. I should have thought more. Here's a better one. I have given a 24 to an excellent Weizenbock that was entered as a Weizen. I think with Weizens in particular it is easy to taste the too strong ones. In fact, I think this has happened in the last three or four contests I have judged Weizens and other Wheat beers in. You can bet I double-checked that the brewer really entered it as a Weizen and not a Weizenbock. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 07:35:57 EST From: John DeCarlo Subject: "19" beers Bob Paolino writes: >He said he would "instantly" give it a 19. There's the problem. That's >little different from saying, "The beer sucks." I may well get that "19" >impression about the beer also, but if you decide right then that you are >going to give that score, you aren't doing the work you're expected to do as >a judge. The brewer can get someone sitting down the bar to give him that >much of an opinion Hmmm. I haven't thought about this too much. Hopefully with a "19" beer, my text is more important than the scores. If I say it has the right malt but that the oxidation has probably ruined the hop aroma completely, that should be more useful than whether the 1 or 2 it gets is completely defensible in that category. You can bet I will say more about the need for good sanitation on the judging form for a seriously soured beer than I will worry about the breakdown of the 19 points completely defensibly. You are right, though, that I may often just skip commenting on the flavor possibilities if it is contaminated--I'll have to think about that some more--some you just *can't* bring yourself to taste :-(. But some you can and should. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 08:19:31 -0600 From: glo at lanl.gov (Gordon L. Olson) Subject: purpose of calibration beers Roger Deschner writes: >Another issue this brings up is the role of the Calibration Beer. At the >AHA National Finals last year in Denver, as much as possible each table >of judges was given a calibration beer that was a known representative >example of the style they were about to judge. ... (etc.) > >We will be trying this procedure again for the Chicago First Round this >coming weekend. Please do not keep your feelings to yourself about this, >especially those of you who are in Chicago for it. Since this is >definitely more work for the organizers, we would like to know if it >makes a worthwhile difference in judging. Yes! Definitely! Maybe it is because I've been judging for many years, but I consider the start-up beer to be a "warm-up" beer rather than a calibration. I very much like to have a warm-up beer close in style to the one I'm about to judge. That way I can openly and thoroughly discuss the style with the judges at my table before we get the real entries. Often I judge with people whom I haven't judged with previously, so this is very valuable. Also, especially in morning judging sessions, it is important to me to "wake up" my tastebuds. So, even though it is more work, many of us do appreciate relevant styles for warmup beers. Ted_Manahan writes in response: >In my opinion, this is a dangerous practice. The reason is that many >styles have a wide range of acceptable characteristics. To present SNPA >as the true avatar of American Pale Ales will encourage judges to knock >points off a darker pale ale, even though it could be well within the >AHA guidelines. Whoa! I don't think that Roger was introducing these calibration beers as the "best" example of that style. You read more into his message than he actually said. They were "given a calibration beer that was a known representative example of the style they were about to judge." This does not imply the calibration was the ideal example. I don't like the idea of giving all categories a light American lager. What you are looking for in that category maybe totally irrelevant to what you are about to judge. I have just read Russ's response. What I have said is 100% in agreement with him. We just said it a little differently. Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:22:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Craig Pepin Subject: Calibration beers and point assignment My 0.02 on recent stuff: I agree with Russ that calibration beers should not be "perfect" examples of a style, since there is latitude in most style guidelines anyways. But, most regional competitions can't afford to get individual styles examples for each table, and I therefore completely agree with Ted that an American lager makes an ideal calibration beer because it reminds all judges that *style guidelines* are how a beer should be judged. Two years ago at our local competition, the organizer threw us a curveball by serving an "American Light" as a calibration beer. After conversation with the more experienced judge at the table, I recall giving it a low 30s score because it was too light-bodied, even for an American Light. It turned out to be O'Doul's (bleagh), which served as a valuable corrective to the tendency to overrate the bigger beers by more inexperienced judges. (I haven't run across the reverse relationship of underrating a beer because of its perceived "bigness" yet). Serving a calibration beer that is a) a "lighter" style and b) somewhat out of style is a useful thing to help focus judges, and it should be followed by discussion of the sample before the task of judging entries begins. As far as top down or bottom up, I vary from my good friend Mike Lelivelt, and never assign a beer a score until I've added up all the individual components of the scoresheet. The drinkability factor usually gives me enough of a fudge factor to work with. As far as being out of style, I feel obliged to give the 25 only to a beer that is clearly wide of the mark. If it is a little too hoppy or too big for style, but otherwise pretty good, I have no problems giving it a higher score. In terms of out of style, I always think, "how far out of style?" Because a great beer that is otherwise a little too hoppy/malty or whatever might still be completely deserving of the category win (but hopefully not BOS) Now I will follow Bob Paolini's advice and have many beers at the U.S. Open in Charlotte tomorrow. Craig Pepin Duke University/TRUB ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 21:25:16 -0400 From: Mmurphy7 at aol.com Subject: Jan. 7, Santa Roas, CA EXAM Has anyone out there heard about results from this exam? I've been told that it's a "problem" exam. Just wondering if anyone took it and got their certification (or not) yet. Tia. mmurphy7 at aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 03:30:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Andrew Patrick Subject: Top-down Vs. Bottom Up scoring... FWIW, I just go ahead and score each component first, then see what it adds up to. Every once in a while this results in a score that seems either too high or too low, and I then make adjustments. But I make the adjustment by figuring out which component of the beer that I over- or under-ranked the first time though, and changing it accordingly. I have a hard time giving a really clean, pleasant, drinkable beer lower than a 25. It just seems cruel to the brewer that worked so hard. I know the little box at the bottom the sheet says that if a beer is "not to style", you are supposed to diss it. Well, I'm a firm believer that those are _guidelines_ (kinda like the AHA Style "Guidelines"), and if experienced contest organizers and judges have good reasons for wanting to depart from them, they should feel free to so so. I know lots of other judges that feel the same way. (Of course all this comes up in the midst of First-Round Nationals judging... now I am gonna be really self-critical of my scoring tomorrow.... Andy Patrick (andnator at mcs.com) Certified Beer Judge; Brewing Instructor-College of DuPage County,IL Founder, HomeBrew U BBS Network: Chicago 708-705-7263, Houston 713-923-6418, Milwaukee 414-238-9074 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 20:18:53 -0500 From: ddavison at earth.execpc.com (Dennis Davison) Subject: 1st Round Chicago It's over. 689 beers by 54 judges in three judging sessions. I wish to thank all of those unselfish judges that gave of there time to make the 1st round in Chicago a success. We all had a great time, and we couldn't have done it without you. Onto Baltimore. We'll see you all there. - -- Dennis Davison ddavison at earth.execpc.com Milwaukee, WI Judge Director of the 1st Round of The AHA Nationals - Chicago,IL 1995 Organizer - Real Ale Fest - Chicago - October 13,14 1995 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 95 21:59:00 EDT From: "Houseman, David L [TR]" Subject: BUZZ-OFF Homebrew Competition Beer Unlimited Zany Zymurgists Present The Second Annual BUZZ-OFF Sunday, June 25, 1995, 10:00 AM Valley Forge Brewing Co. Resturant and Pub Gateway Shopping Center, Rt 202, Devon, PA Location/Sponsors This year s competition will be sponsored by Beer Unlimited, BUZZ and the Valley Forge Brewing Co. Resturant and Pub. The event will be open to the public. The awards ceremony will follow the competition. Eligibility The 1995 Buzz-Off Homebrew Competition is open to all non-commercial home produced beers. Enter as often as you wish. Enter as many categories as you wish. Categories The 1995 BUZZ-Off will judge beer, mead, and cider styles recognized by the American Homebrewers Association. AHA categories and subcategories will be used (see enclosed category list). All entries must indicate category, subcategory, and style description. Sake will be enjoyed, but not judged. All entries will be judged according to the style entered. Categories receiving fewer than five (5) entries may be combined with a related category for the presentation of awards. Awards and Prizes Certificates of achievement, first, second and third place ribbons will be awarded in each category or combined category as well as for the BEST of SHOW. BUZZ will secure commercial sponsorship for category winners. A total of up to $1000 in gift certificates will we awarded. All questions and disputes will be settled by the competition organizer. All decisions will be final. Entries An entry consists of two (2) bottles, accompanied by a completed entry/recipe form -- one for each entry. A bottle ID form must be attached to each bottle with rubber bands -- No glue or tape. Beers must be in clean 10-16 ounce glass bottles, free of labels, raised glass, silk screen, or other identifying markings. Any markings on the cap must be completely blacked out. No swing-top bottles. All entries become the property of BUZZ. No bottles will be returned. Entry Fees & Deadlines Entry fees are $5.00 per entry. Make check payable to Beer Unlimited. Entries must arrive between June 7 and June 21, 1995. Entries will not be accepted before June 7 or after June 21, 1995. Send entries to: BUZZ- Off c/o Beer Unlimited Rts 30 & 401 Malvern, PA 19355 Local entries may be dropped off between June 7 and June 17, 1995 at any of the Philadelphia Area homebrewing stores. Packing and Shipping Pack in a sturdy box. Pad each bottle and the inside of the box. Line box with heavy trash bag and twist-tie securely. Pack entry forms, recipe forms, and fees outside the bag. Mark the box Fragile. UPS is recommended for shipping. Beer Label Contest Beer labels will be judged for artistic merit and appropriateness to the style for the label entry. Entry fee is $2.00. Each label must be accompanied by an entry form. In order to show off your labels in their natural environment, submit entries attached to an empty, capped beer bottle. First, second and third place ribbons will be awarded. Delaware Valley Homebrewer of The Year The BUZZ-Off is the final jewel in the local homebrewing crown: The 1995 Delaware Valley Homebrewer of the Year will be chosen based on points awarded from the Hops-Bops, Dock Street, Moon Madness and BUZZ-Off Competitions. Judges We will secure the most experienced, qualified judges possible. We are soliciting qualified judges and stewards from all participating homebrew clubs. Judges and stewards will be awarded experience points toward the Beer Judge Certification Program, which is jointly sponsored by the AHA and HWBTA. Prospective judges and stewards are requested to fill out the attached form. You will be contacted individually to confirm participation and given directions to the contest. Since this year we are holding this event at a new Brew Pub in our area, there is even more reason to come and spend the day out of the hot sun. The competition will begin at 10:00am. Stewards should be present by 9:00am; judges by 9:30am for their assignments. Bed and Brew Judges and stewards from out of the area are welcome to participate in the Bed and Brew program. BUZZ club members are opening their homes for those traveling from some distance who would like to have a place to stay for Saturday June 24th and Sunday June 25th. Please indicate your desire to have a place to stay on the Judge/Steward Registration Form and you will be contacted several weeks prior to the contest. You may enter using the standard recipe, bottle label and judge participation forms or For further information contact: Jim McHale at Beer Unlimited (610) 889-0905 or Dave Houseman H: (610) 458-0743 Competition Organizer W:(610) 648-4071 dlh1 at trpo3.tredydev.unisys.com ------------------------------ End of JudgeNet Digest ************************