From synchro!judge-owner at uu6.psi.com Wed Apr 12 04:15:59 1995 Status: O X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["22681" "" "12" "April" "1995" "02:17:55" "EST" "JudgeNet Administrator" "judge-owner at synchro.com" nil "536" "JudgeNet Digest #1019 (Apr 12, 1995)" "^From:" nil nil "4" nil nil nil nil] nil) Received: by judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.12/2.2) with X.500 id EAA01805; Wed, 12 Apr 1995 04:15:57 -0400 Received: from goodman.itn.med.umich.edu by judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.12/2.2) with SMTP id EAA01800; Wed, 12 Apr 1995 04:15:56 -0400 Received: from uu6.psi.com by goodman.itn.med.umich.edu with SMTP id AA26992 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for spencer at umich.edu); Wed, 12 Apr 95 04:15:53 -0400 Received: from synchro.UUCP by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA22178 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 95 03:58:26 -0400 Received: by synchro.com (smail2.5) id AA15812; 12 Apr 95 02:17:55 EST (Wed) Reply-To: judge at synchro.com (JudgeNet) Errors-To: judge-error at synchro.com Precedence: bulk Message-Id: <9504120217.AA15812 at synchro.com> From: judge-owner at synchro.com (JudgeNet Administrator) To: judge-recipients at synchro.com (JudgeNet Recipients) Subject: JudgeNet Digest #1019 (Apr 12, 1995) Date: 12 Apr 95 02:17:55 EST (Wed) JudgeNet Digest #1019 Wed 12 Apr 1995 THE BEER JUDGE DIGEST digest submissions: judge at synchro.com administrative requests: judge-request at synchro.com send cancellations & rank updates to the administrative address messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored FTP Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu in /pub/judge WWW Archives: http://guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu/Beer/Judge Gopher Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu Editor: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publishers: SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery Contents: AHA-NHC Western Regional reminder (Lowell Hart) Points, Points, Points (Bill Giffin) Call for Judges (Terry Terfinko) Re: BJCC vote results (GSMITHBEER) BJCC Election Clarification (MSTOKES) Judging only for the points (MSTOKES) Wait a bit don't get all drove up (Bill Giffin) A word from the BJCC ("Rad Equipment") A word from the BJCC Time:9:13 AM Date:4/11/95 Santa Rosa Exam ("PATRICK N. BAKER") 1st Round - Chicago - 2nd Call (Dennis Davison) BJCC voting record (Chuck Cox) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 00:03:11 -0700 From: Lowell Hart Subject: AHA-NHC Western Regional reminder Just a reminder: AHA-NHC Western Regional First Round April 28, 29, & 30, 1995 California State University, Fresno Enology Building Sensory Evaluation Room All judges encouraged to attend. BJCP points awarded (Russ sez so) For info contact: Julian Bencomo, head organizer, at 209-237-5823 Lowell Hart, head organizer's henchman, lhart at cati.CSUFresno.edu Sponsored by San Joaquin WortHogs and CSU Fresno Enology Society Saturday night barbeque & homebrew tasting at L.E. O'Neill Park, 100 yds. from judging site. On-site RV parking available. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 05:55:27 -0500 From: billg at giffin.iii.net (Bill Giffin) Subject: Points, Points, Points Too many of the judges in the country seem far more interested in getting points for their judging then anything else. From my understanding anyone who judges will get points from any competition they judge in that is recognized and have those points recorded with the progran they chose; so not going to a competition to judge because you msy not get a point is not the problem. We in Maine have to travel hundreds of miles to participate in competitions in our region. We do so because of the fellowship and fun we have from the trips and seeing fellow judges who have been our friends for years. I would not let down these friends who have organized a competition down by not showing up to help them judge their competition because I might not get a point. Point or not the purpose of the program is to help our friends judge competitions and to try to improve the homebrewed beer by giving good feedback to the brewers as well as have a good time in the process. I think that if you are in this hobby only for the points and nothing else matters to you as seemed to be the case for one of our fellow judges perhaps you should stay away from all competitions. If you are only chasing points I don't know if I would even want you to come judge any competition I have entered or organized!!! Martin Stokes joins me in signing this. May the wind be always at you back, Bill Bill Giffin 61 Pleasant St. Richmond, ME 04357 (207)-737-2015 All you need is a few good friends and plenty to drink because thirst is a terrible thing! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Apr 95 8:23:12 EDT From: Terry Terfinko Subject: Call for Judges Call for Judges Eastern PA Competition: Once again it's time for the Moon Madness Beer Competition being held May 20, 1995 at Douglassville Hotel located in Douglassville, Pa. The contest is being sponsored by the Boys From Brew Ha Ha, Ltd. of Fleetwood (formerly Pottstown). We invite you to judge in our annual competition. The judging will begin at 10:00 a.m. Saturday, May 20th. Lunch will be served around noon. We would like to have all judges registered and ready to start by 9:45 a.m. You can register by Email (terfintt at ttown.apci.com) or phone (610-944-0500). When you register, please state your category preference, BJCP status, and contact information. Douglassville Hotel is located 25 miles NW of Philadelphia on Rt 422, 4 miles west of Rt 100. Please call if you need additional directions. We look forward to having you take part in the Madness with us! Brew Ha Ha is also sponsoring a judges exam on Sunday, May 21st. A "Cram Session" will be held Saturday, May 13th around 7:00 p.m. Both the cram course & judge exam will be given at the store in Fleetwood. If you would like to take the exam, please call (610-944-0500) by Saturday, May 6th. Terry Terfinko, Judge Coordinator Randy & Kathy Martin, Contest Coordinators ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 06:07:19 -0700 From: GSMITHBEER at eworld.com Subject: Re: BJCC vote results Chuck you are incorrect, I voted for all three items which passed, although maybe not to your satisfaction? Gregg Smith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 11:22:37 EDT From: Subject: BJCC Election Clarification Many thanks to Desmond Lundy and the current BJCC for the information that we received yesterday by Real-Mail. It was not immediately clear to me, however, exactly how someone was to be nominated. I presume a letter with the 10 signatures should be sent to Hayward before May 1. Right? Martin Stokes That cider really makes reading American difficult for an Englishman! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 11:47:15 EDT From: Subject: Judging only for the points Greg: If all you judge for is the points then you are missing the real joys of interacting with beer people. Yes, I want the points too, but the personal fulfillment of learning more about beer and brewing and helping others do the same by judging their beers is what it's all about for me. Then there's the free beer, the food's usually pretty good, and then there's the people. For me it's a lot of fun and it's personally rewarding, that means a lot more than the points. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 10:53:34 -0500 From: billg at giffin.iii.net (Bill Giffin) Subject: Wait a bit don't get all drove up In reply to Chuck's note. The BJCP is not broken why worry about fixing it. I went to Vermont on Saturday April 8, 1995 and surprise the members of the BJCP without help from the AHA managed to judge 300+ beers and come to a first, second and third in each of 17 different categories as well as best of show etc. I grant you that there are some problems in the program, many of you know that I personally have been looking for some changes and have been quite outspoken in my concerns. The BJCP still works quite well in spite of some minor problems. What is the AHA going to do for us? Did the AHA give a clear and precise reason for their withdrawing from the program? Do you trust the AHA? Who is the AHA more concerned about its "members" or the advertisers who provide them with the nice large bottom line? I'll give you my answers to the above questions as I see it . The AHA sees the judge program as another profit center for the AHA and when they get the BJCP out of the picture I can see the AHA requiring all judges in the program to be a member of the AHA. With that accomplished I believe the AHA will then require an other fee from us to participate in the program. Why do I feel this way? I will give you an example the classic beer series books are sold to the members now at the retail price with no discount. I as a homebrew supply shop can buy these same books from my wholesalers for $6.50 or $7.00; are you as a member being ripped off I think so. The AHA did not give a very good reason for dropping out of the program. If they want out OK but don't give us a lot chuck and jive. The rumor has it that the real reason that the AHA dropped out was that Karen hated one of the members of the BJCC guts. I don't believe that I think they are only in it for the money! If the AHA is the only game in town I see fees going up with out any more services. One of the things the AHA mentioned in their letter about a new judging program that there would be an administrator available five day a week. Sounds good right. I have called AHA on a number of occasions and I really feel that I would have done better if I had called dial a prayer, who knows perhaps I may have been converted to a bible beating something and given up BEER. After this many of you will wish that I had. Do I trust the AHA? No I don't the renewal information I received from the AHA contained half truths misrepresentations and in my opinion out and out falsehoods. I really feel that the AHA, even though they say they are a membership organization, care more for the advertisers than the members. If they really cared about the members they would do a better job editing the magazine. If the AHA really cared about us they would not charge us more than what was needed to go to functions. If the AHA really cared when we judged the national competition they would provide the judges with some small token of their appreciation after we have spent as much as $250 just to be at the first round judging. If the AHA really cared they would give us a good discount on the item they sell, books etc. In may opinion I do not believe that the AHA truly gives a damn about us! The AHA is a tax exempt organization, rather the AOB is a tax exempt organization. Having been a tax accountant for over twenty years, you know CPA type, I look at the AHA and feel that they should not be tax exempt as an educational organization because I feel that they do not come under IRC 501 c 3. Maybe they meet the letter of the law but in my heart I know that they do not meet the spirit of the law and should lose their tax exempt status ! The Guild of Brewers and Judges is an organization which is ready to go. We have a program in place bylaw almost done. It is an organization by judges for judges administered by homebrew clubs. As a founding member I am not pushing the Guild at the present time because the BJCP appears to be headed in the right direction. The election of representatives has been announced and we are moving forward. WE DO NOT NEED MORE THEN ONE JUDGE ORGANIZATION IN THE COUNTRY!! If the BJCP falls rest assure that the Guild will be there for all the judges. Here is a place where we do not need money grubbing folks dictating what and how we do our judging of beer. I support the BJCP with its faults way above the AHA with its tree hugging approach to every thing. I do at this time agree with CP and this is about the only time Relax don't worry have a homebrew, in this time of MADD a pretty stupid slogan, and wait for the BJCP to get its act together because I believe they will and they are the only ones other then the Guild that give a damn about you as a judge. May the wind be always at you back, Bill Bill Giffin 61 Pleasant St. Richmond, ME 04357 (207)-737-2015 All you need is a few good friends and plenty to drink because thirst is a terrible thing! ------------------------------ Date: 11 Apr 1995 09:40:00 U From: "Rad Equipment" Subject: A word from the BJCC Subject: A word from the BJCC Time:9:13 AM Date:4/11/95 EXPERIENCE POINTS: Experience points will continue to be awarded for "sanctioned" competitions until the reorganization of the BJCP is complete. Once the new by-laws are created some new policy will exist which addresses experience points. Until then the old point structure is in place and operating. There will be points for the AHA Nationals and any other competition which gets sanctioned by either the AHA or the HWBTA. Both of those programs are still operating. BJCC PROGRESS: I will be the first to admit that we are not breaking any land speed records within the BJCC. BUT, we are doing what we were asked to do and what we agreed we would do. The program is operating at status quo in every aspect except where the influence and responsibility of the AHA and the HWBTA are concerned. Interim by-laws have been adopted which allow the program to function while the reorganization takes place. Electing a new group of regional voting delegates who will replace the existing appointed delegates is the first job. They will have the task of creating the new structure of the BJCP. GENERAL INFO: Most of all of you should have by now received the letter which we sent out last Friday by US Mail. It contains the following text as well as a list of the current BJCC members and a letter of endorsement from the HWBTA for our independence. Steve Stroud is organizing the regional election officers. If you want to help with the elections contact him. If you want to nominate or be nominated, follow the instructions in the following text. ****** BEER JUDGE CERTIFICATION PROGRAM c/o Celebrator Beer News - PO box 375 - Hayward, CA 94543 March 28, 1995 Dear participating BJCP beer judge; No doubt you are concerned and possibly confused about the future of the BJCP and your own status as a beer judge in light of the recent announcement by the AHA that they will be withdrawing their sponsorship of the program. Rest assured the BJCP will continue as an independent organization. Since the AHA announced it's decision, the Beer Judge Certification Committee (BJCC), the committee which oversees the BJCP, has been working to convert the program into an association independent of the AHA and the HWBTA and which is operated as a representative democracy. Since the membership of the BJCC has been composed of individuals appointed by the AHA and the HWBTA, it was felt that some "independent" representatives should serve on the current BJCC to more adequately represent your wishes rather than what might be construed as the wishes of the two sponsoring organizations. In order to facilitate the transition from an AHA/HWBTA sponsored program to an independent entity, three at-large delegate positions were created and filled with temporary appointees. They are Scott Birdwell (Houston, TX), Norman Dickenson (Santa Rosa, CA), and Steve Stroud (Medford, MA). The expanded Committee intends to continue the operations of the BJCP (administering exams, promoting judges, maintaining the experience point database, etc.) while it focuses it's primary attention on organizing elections to replace it's membership with a new group of ELECTED regional representatives. These representatives will then have a mandate to lead the BJCP into the future. There has been criticism of the operation of the BJCP by some persons. To a certain extent, some of this criticism is valid. Perhaps the existing BJCC's inability to respond to calls for change in a timely manner has caused some of the frustrations which have resulted in the AHA's decision to withdraw and attempt a new judge program. Volunteer organizations and matters of this size do take time to iron out. However, looking at the big picture, the BJCP is not a failure and never has been. It is a positive and dynamic association of like minded beer enthusiasts which has grown as far as it can under it's existing structure. We prefer to build on and improve a program which has operated successfully for nearly 10 years rather than abandon it and start over again. Any criticisms can be addressed by the new BJCC after a successful reorganization and restructuring is accomplished. As for electing new BJCC representatives , we are taking a regional approach. Seven regions have been established between the US and Canada. Each region will elect it's own delegate to serve as a voting member of the BJCC. They will replace the current voting members. These divisions are based on general population and current BJCP participant population figures. The regions are defined as: Northeast: E. Canada (Ontario and east), ME, VT, NH, MA, RI, CT, NY Mid-Atlantic: NJ, DE, MD, VA, WV, OH, PA, Washington DC Gulf Coast: FL, TX, LA, AR, OK, MS Southeast: AL, GA, KY, NC, SC, TN Midwest: IL, IN, IA, KS, MO, MN, MI, NE, ND, SD, WI Mountain/Northwest: W. Canada (Manitoba and west), MT, WY, CO, NM, AZ, UT, ID, OR, WA, AK West: CA, NV, HI We intend to complete this election process by July 4th so we need to get the nominations down fast. If you wish to run or nominate someone to run please contact us no later than May 1, 1995. The qualifications for running for these delegate seats on the new BJCC are as follows: Candidate may only seek election in the region of his or her residency. (Residency = Mailing Address) Candidate must be a participating judge, in good standing, in the current BJCP. Candidate must have accumulated a minimum of 10 experience points at the time of nomination. Candidate must provide the signatures of 10 participating judges, in good standing, who reside in the candidate's region as an endorsement of his or her candidacy. The term of office and other specific duties of those elected will be up to the new BJCC when it is installed. We suggest candidates be prepared to serve a minimum of 2 years. The primary task of the new BJCC will be to write new by-laws and restructure the program so it can function efficiently as a volunteer staffed organization. If you are willing to assist with the election duties in your area please contact us. For the time being we will be using the Celebrator Beer News as a mail drop. Address your correspondence to: BJCP c/o Celebrator Beer News PO Box 375 Hayward, CA 94543 We are on a shoestring budget right now and counting every penny. If you are feeling flush, won't you consider including a donation to the BJCP? You know, democracy isn't free! We also understand there is some anxiety over the lack of an annual letter this year which provides you with a record of your judge tests and experience points. We will attempt to remedy that with our next mailing. Thank you; BJCC Russ Wigglesworth (INTERNET: Rad_Equipment at radmac1.ucsf.edu - CI$: 72300,61) UCSF Dept. of Radiology, San Francisco, CA (415) 476-3668 / Home (707) 769-0425 ------------------------------ Date: 11 Apr 95 15:24:36 EDT From: "PATRICK N. BAKER" <74443.3040 at compuserve.com> Subject: Santa Rosa Exam Responding to Jeramy Bergsman's query about where results of the Santa Rosa exam, held January 7, are. Scoring of the 30+ exams was split between three sets of scorers. One set has been completed. One set is almost done. One set is way behind but is being expedited. Alberta Rager, who handles exams in the west, is responsible for this exam, and is working to wrap it up. There have been two problems in the west recently which have delayed exam processing. The first is that too many exams were scheduled. We limit ourselves to two per month in the east, but will soon increase that as we are increasing our scorer availability. The second problem is that Alberta's scorer team is small and overloaded. Steps are being taken to correct this. In sum, in the east, we are doing much better than our twelve week turn around promise. We have not been meeting the twelve week promise in the west and ask for your patience and tolerance while we improve things. Patrick Baker BJCP Co-Director ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 17:23:54 -0500 From: ddavison at earth.execpc.com (Dennis Davison) Subject: 1st Round - Chicago - 2nd Call 2nd Call for Judges and Stewards. April 28th & 29th. Midwest Invitational Brew-Off. Lot's O Beer and Lot's O Fun. Joseph Formanek - Please resend your message from Monday, my mailer fried your mail. - -- Dennis Davison ddavison at earth.execpc.com Milwaukee, WI Judge Director of the 1st Round of The AHA Nationals - Chicago,IL 1995 Organizer - Real Ale Fest - Chicago - October 13,14 1995 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Apr 95 23:30:09 EST From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox) Subject: BJCC voting record Here is a more complete version of the BJCC voting record: Regional Election: for: Gregg, Scott, Steve, John against: Russ, Norman, Rob Interim Bylaws: for: Rob, Steve, Gregg, Russ, Norman against: none abstain: John, Scott General Letter: (I'm not sure of the details of the two different letters, or of exactly how this three-way vote was done) for Russ' version: Rob, Gregg, Russ, Norman, Scott for Steve's version: Steve abstain: John I realize that three votes is not much to analyze, but lets see if any patterns emerge. In my opinion, all of these items were constructive. So, if we assign +1 point for a yes vote, -1 for a no, and 0 for abstain, we can get a quick overview of the BJCC. A vote for either version of the letter is considered a yes vote. Here is my BJCC scorecard: +3 = proactive, 0 = neutral, -3 = obstructionist Gregg (HWBTA) = +3 Steve (IND) = +3 Scott (IND) = +2 Rob (HWBTA) = +1 John (AHA) = +1 Norman (IND) = +1 Russ (AHA) = +1 Averaging by organization gives us: IND = +2 HWBTA = +2 AHA = +1 Since the current BJCC is not interested in keeping you informed in any official manner, I'll try to keep better records in the future and continue to provide unauthorized information so you know what your BJCC is up to. Hopefully, the BJCC will eventually appoint a communications director who will provide official status reports. - -- Chuck Cox SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass. ------------------------------ End of JudgeNet Digest ************************