From synchro!judge-owner at uu6.psi.com Mon Mar 6 23:25:07 1995 X-VM-v5-Data: ([t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["25920" "" " 6" "March" "1995" "21:36:20" "EST" "JudgeNet Administrator" "judge-owner at synchro.com" nil "627" "JudgeNet Digests #985-987 (Mar 06, 1995)" "^From:" nil nil "3" nil nil nil nil] nil) Received: by truelies.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.2) with X.500 id XAA25560; Mon, 6 Mar 1995 23:25:04 -0500 Received: from goodman.itn.med.umich.edu by truelies.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.2) with SMTP id XAA25531; Mon, 6 Mar 1995 23:25:00 -0500 Received: from uu6.psi.com by goodman.itn.med.umich.edu with SMTP id AA06159 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for spencer at umich.edu); Mon, 6 Mar 95 23:24:58 -0500 Received: from synchro.UUCP by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA23931 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 95 22:31:42 -0500 Received: by synchro.com (smail2.5) id AA00678; 6 Mar 95 21:36:20 EST (Mon) Reply-To: judge at synchro.com (JudgeNet) Errors-To: judge-error at synchro.com Precedence: bulk Message-Id: <9503062136.AA00678 at synchro.com> X-Status: From: judge-owner at synchro.com (JudgeNet Administrator) To: judge-recipients at synchro.com (JudgeNet Recipients) Subject: JudgeNet Digests #985-987 (Mar 06, 1995) Date: 6 Mar 95 21:36:20 EST (Mon) JudgeNet Digests #985-987 Mon 06 Mar 1995 THE BEER JUDGE DIGEST digest submissions: judge at synchro.com administrative requests: judge-request at synchro.com send cancellations & rank updates to the administrative address messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored FTP Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu in /pub/judge WWW Archives: http://guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu/Beer/Judge Gopher Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu Editor: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publishers: SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery Contents: Resending 985-987 (Chuck Cox) The reason for judging... ("Lee C. Bussy") Putting the cart before the horse (bickham) Re: JudgeNet Digest #984 (Mar 01, 1995) (Robert L. Lamothe) After April 19th (Robert L. Lamothe) Binghamton BJCP exam (bickham) Spirit of Free Beer Homebrew Competition (Delano Dugarm EDITS 36478) Re: She said it, not me (Spencer.W.Thomas) Meaningful Subjects Please (Chuck Cox) Scoresheet Comments/ The Guild Point System (Waldon, Tracy ) Keep Trying To Become a Judge (John DeCarlo ) Looking for Greg Holton ("Kieran O'Connor") Oregon Homebrew Competition (Jennifer Crum) RE: Meaningful Subjects Please (Kevin Schutz) A factoid about the AHA's Database (David Klein) Gemstate Homebrew Contest (Loren Carter) Do self proclaimed judges have responsibility? (John Isenhour) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 21:15:22 EST From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox) Subject: Resending 985-987 There were some problems over the weekend and many of you didn't receive digests 985 - 987, so I am resending those articles in this digest. Digest 990 will go out as usual tonight. - -- Chuck Cox SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass. ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 06:22:55 +0000 From: "Lee C. Bussy" Subject: The reason for judging... Jim Busch writes in #983: > >This is more complete nonsense. I dont want a damn judge telling >me how to get more malt complexity in my pale ale, I want them >to judge it as a pale ale, and tell me how they liked it, and >how it compares to general pale ales. This whole buisness of Well Jim, this is one of the first times I have disagreed with you :). The purpose of a judge and his feedback is to help the brewer to better his beer. You may know how to get more maltiness or less diacetyl but a beginning/intermediate brewer might not. This is a very importand thing to do for the brewer. I can only guess that the response from the HBD if this were to be posted there would be about 10/1 in favor of tips to better one's efforts. That seems to be the response I get from brewers here anyway. - -- -Lee Bussy | The 4 Basic Foodgroups.... | leeb at southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women! | Wichita, Kansas | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb | ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 08:56:04 -0500 (EST) From: bickham at msc.cornell.edu Subject: Putting the cart before the horse Thanks for Russ and Steve for clarifying the cost issues surrounding the proposed elections. One fact that strikes me as illogical is why couldn't the AHA and the BJCC plan elections around the annual judge status updates that were mailed in January, or better yet, with the survey that was mailed out by the AHA? With the point updates, there could be a request for nominations, and then once they have been received, a ballot could be mailed along with the survey asking the BJCP members what they want the advisory board to accomplish. One problem I have with the most recent mailing is that one can only nominate him or herself. James Spence has responded to some of my questions privately and has said that the AHA wants the new BJCP to be democratic, with the AHA providing logistical and administrative support. The Board of Advisors would be responsible for any actual decisions that would affect the operations. This latter part is similar to what we have proposed here, but regional directors would have the role of the AHA in keeping the database, doing mailings and sanctioning competitions. Wouldn't you agree that this sounds similar to the problems that arose at the Constitutional Convention. Maybe we could ask Clinton to mediate, especially after the resounding success he had with the baseball strike ;-) Scott Bickham ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 8:41:58 EST From: rll at sun_cmc.iol.unh.edu (Robert L. Lamothe) Subject: Re: JudgeNet Digest #984 (Mar 01, 1995) While kicking back at the Stagger Inn, JudgeNet Administrator said: > >Date: 28 Feb 95 21:36:00 EST >From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <76422.2455 at compuserve.com> >Subject: She said it, not me > >TO: judgenet , JUDGE at synchro,com > >Re: She said it, not me > >Let me quote K. Barela from her editorial in Z. "I'm a homebrewer-and proud of >it. In the end it doesn't really matter what the judges think of my homebrew." >Does this tell us that the expectations of the homebrewers entering competitions >are out of line and its not the judges that need education but the brewer, or is >this just really showing her overall contempt toward the judges? Maybe both?? I'll back Karen on this one. Because she's right. This is after all a hobby. Many of my friends who brew have yet to develop past the pre-hopped kit stage. Yet they are enthusiastic about the hobby and love the beer that they produce. While I personally participate in contests to find out how to improve my beer, many homebrewers aren't that serious about. I have another friend who makes recipe beer who won't enter contests because he considers 3 bottles of beer to dear to part with. And that is his choice. I don't think that you can interpret contemp on Karen's part by this statement. She's stating a personal philosophical belief which is shared by many homebrewers. One thing I've noticed about homebrewers is they can hand you a bottle of nearly undrinkable beer and their eyes beam with the pride of a new parent. The hobby can be enjoyed on many levels, not all of us are going to be as zealous in our approach. Not all of us are going to try to find a way to pick up 5 extra points in our next batch. Not all of us are going to try and go the extra step to improve flavor, color or aroma. But we all love good beer and we all love brewing. Lets concern ourselves with the future of the judging program and not what we can read into a statement taken out of context. -Bob - -- * Robert L. Lamothe University of New Hampshire * * rll at unh.edu Interoperablity lab room 337 * * (603)862-4349 Morse Hall * * * * "All I ask of life is a constant and exaggerated sense of my own * * importance." * ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 8:51:02 EST From: rll at sun_cmc.iol.unh.edu (Robert L. Lamothe) Subject: After April 19th One of the posters in the last Judge Net Digest was asking about the BJCP exams coming up. The answer addressed an exam being offered on April 1. I have not yet taken the BJCP exam and won't be able to until July when it is being offered in Brattleboro Vt. My concern is whether or not a BJCP will still be functioning at that time. Will I even have an oppurtunity and if so how will this fit into the new world order of judging. I expect judges who are currently recognized and above will be grandfathered into whatever is to come. What is the future for those of use who've yet to earn our stripes? Will we be caught in a nebulus nether world of inoppurtunity? I surely hope not as I've begun to enjoy what I am now being introduced to. -Bob - -- * Robert L. Lamothe University of New Hampshire * * rll at unh.edu Interoperablity lab room 337 * * (603)862-4349 Morse Hall * * * * "All I ask of life is a constant and exaggerated sense of my own * * importance." * ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 09:52:21 -0500 (EST) From: bickham at msc.cornell.edu Subject: Binghamton BJCP exam This is the final notice to register to take the BJCP exam at Binghamton, NY on April 1st. Binghamton is located at the crossroads of I-81 and Rt. 17, about an hour south of Syracuse. There are 7 confirmed, and another 2 or 3 probable test-takers. The exam will be in the morning, and after a lunch break, judges will be able to earn an experience point in the afternoon session of the competition. Please send me e-mail for more details. Scott Bickham - -- ======================================================================== Scott Bickham bickham at msc.cornell.edu ========================================================================= ------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 20:16:00 -0500 (EST) From: Delano Dugarm EDITS 36478 Subject: Spirit of Free Beer Homebrew Competition The Washington, DC area is hosting a major regional homebrew competition on May 20, 1995. The Third Annual Nation's Capital "Spirit of Free Beer" Homebrew Competition is sanctioned by the HWBTA/BJCP program. The contest includes 67 beer styles grouped into twelve major classes. Last year's competition drew 243 entries. As the competition organizer for the Brewers United for Real Potables (BURP) homebrew club, I am encouraging brewers of all skill levels to enter their homebrews in this competition. The Potomac River Brewing Company in Chantilly, VA, has agreed to accommodate cold storage needs and judging will take place on-site in closed session to avoid mistreatment of entries. This competition is an excellent opportunity to have beers judged in comparison to beers from a wide geographic region and get quality feedback. Scoresheets will be *promptly* returned following judging. Although the primary objective of the homebrew competition is to provide constructive comments on the entries, we are currently in the process of assembling a full range of prizes to be sponsored by regional microbreweries, homebrew supply shops, bars, restaurants, and others. More than $2000 worth of prizes ($50-$100 gift certificates for mail order homebrew supplies, sacks of British malt, a 3l bottle of Corsendonk Pale Ale, etc.) were awarded at last year's competition (1st, 2nd, and 3rd place in each class, plus 1st, 2nd, 3rd place best of show). The Nation's Capital "Spirit of Free Beer" Homebrew Competition provides an excellent opportunity for judges participating in the Beer Judge Certification Program to earn experience points. We expect to exceed the number of entries received at last year's competition. We have volunteers willing to provide lodging for judges staying overnight. Anyone interested in judging can contact the Judging Coordinator, Rick Garvin, at rgarvin at btg.com. Get those fermentation locks bubbling and send us your entries. If you would like to recieve an information packet on the Nation's Capital "Spirit of Free Beer" Homebrew Competition (including full rules and entry forms), please send private e-mail to me at adugarm at worldbank.org or leave your USPS address on my answering machine at (703) 516-9659. Thanks!! Delano DuGarm adugarm at worldbank.org ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 11:31:08 EST From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: Re: She said it, not me No, it's a common attitude, even among judges. There are (at least) a couple of issues: 1. Judge fallibility. Let's face it, we're none of us perfect. Factors such as state of health, position of a beer in a flight, etc. can easily affect our judgement. 2. Good beer but not in style. This may be more what she was getting at. I've made any number of beers that were (IMO) quite good, but didn't "fit" any of the defined styles very well. Thus, they would not do well in competition. Well, "I like them" and maybe I just won't enter them. More for me to drink :-) =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 17:23:43 EST From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox) Subject: Meaningful Subjects Please One of the keys to effective mailing list communications is providing a meaningful subject. Subjects like "Re: Digest #123" don't tell us anything. Please take the extra couple of seconds to make sure your posting has an informative subject. I reserve the right to replace bad subject lines with "I'm a doofus" or the like. - -- Chuck "I'm generally not a doofus" Cox SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass. ------------------------------- Date: Thu Mar 2 10:42:22 1995 From: (Waldon, Tracy ) Subject: Scoresheet Comments/ The Guild Point System Jim Busch brought up an interesting issue w.r.t. judges' comments on competition scoresheets: > ... the Guild point system will allow >>you to credit your experience in other sanctioned events >>as long as there are more than 6 entries in a substyle. BG Subject: Keep Trying To Become a Judge Hey, don't let the AHA scare you away from becoming a Judge. In spite of the division and apparent lack of thought, they are still saying they will continue to recognize all Judges, even from other programs. We need more Judges, and whatever the political agenda, no one will be able to get away with not recognizing those in other organizations. At least not this year. It will be interesting to see when and if the AHA organization will be compiling and sponsoring exams. If they really plan on changing the format, there will be some work involved, and it is unclear they have the expertise or staffing to do this. The discussions here pointed out the possibilities and effort. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org ------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 08:30:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Kieran O'Connor" Subject: Looking for Greg Holton Greg Hotlon, of tthe Hudson Valley, NY CLub posted a contest announcement recently. greg at kgn.ibm.com is is e-mail address, but repeated mailings have bounced--Grek--are u out there--and can you reply? Thanks. Kieran ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kieran O'Connor E-Mail Address: koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu Syracuse, N.Y. USA In vino veritas; in cervesio felicitas. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 12:44:26 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Crum Subject: Oregon Homebrew Competition First call! Start brewin'! THE 13th ANNUAL OREGON HOMEBREW COMPETITION AND FESTIVAL On Saturday, May 13, 1995 at 11 am. Benton County Fairgrounds - 110 SW 53rd Street, Corvallis, Oregon. Sponsored by Heart of the Valley Homebrewers. Sanctioned by AHA and HWBTA With Special Guests Fred Eckhardt and Daryll Richman We will be recognizing all 24 AHA categories and combining them into groups if needed. The competition is open to anyone. Cost is $5.00 per entry if recieved by May 12th and $8.00 on the day of the competition. Entries may be shipped via UPS to The Homebrew Shop, 130 Hill St N.E., Albany, OR 97321. Standard AHA entry forms will be accepted. For full information or entry forms send email with your name, email address, and snail mail address to Jennifer Crum at crumj at bcc.orst.edu If interested in judging, contact Ted Manahan at internet address tedm at hp-pcd.cv.hp.com ------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 10:53:41 MST From: kschutz at atmel.com (Kevin Schutz) Subject: RE: Meaningful Subjects Please In JudgeNet #985, Chuck writes: >One of the keys to effective mailing list communications is providing a >meaningful subject. Subjects like "Re: Digest #123" don't tell us >anything. Please take the extra couple of seconds to make sure your >posting has an informative subject. >I reserve the right to replace bad subject lines with "I'm a doofus" or >the like. Amen! Kevin Schutz kschutz at atmel.com ------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 11:00:58 -0800 (PST) From: David Klein Subject: A factoid about the AHA's Database JUst wanted to make one small point in terms of the level of administrative support given by the AHA. I am in charge of our clubs first competition. When registering with the AHA, we opted to pay the $5 to get a list of local judges printed on mailing labels. Well... I can easily excuse the fact that the list was done on all judges on california as opposed to local ones (i.e. we got So Cal but not Reno which is much closer). But in stiicking the labels on we discovered that A: some judges were listed multiple times (I know Byron is a good guy, but does he deserve 5 mailing labels to the same address?) B: Of the 6 members of our club who took the exam last year, 3 were not listed! The issue of multiple listings to me shows a basic lack of caring about what is being done. It takes minimal effort to make sure that a *paid for* database is useful (what use are mailing labels if you have to go through them and make sure you dont waste postage on multiple mailings) The issue of non-listed judges *really* pissed me off. Before posting this I did check, and those same judges did not receive the mailing from the AHA (the survey that is). So basically these poeple who paid for a test to become listed on a database of qualified judges (which is really what the test is about in my mind) basically had their money stolen by the AHA (obviously they are going to call, but for the money we pay that is unacceptable). I guess that became more of a tantrum than a factoid, but my basic point is this: the database is not in good shape. If judges and the BJCC are paying the AHA for "administrative support" where the hell is it? I looked at the survey, and think it looks *really* good, but a history like this really makes me wonder what the hell they are drinking so much of in Colorado. ------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 10:01:23 -0700 From: Lcarter at claven.idbsu.edu (Loren Carter) Subject: Gemstate Homebrew Contest Announcing: The Ninth Annual Gemstate Homebrew Contest Deadline: April 23, 1995 All standard catagories For more information contact Loren Carter at lcarter at claven.idbsu.edu Let me know if you want the info pack via email or snail mail. For smail please give me your smail address. Loren Carter Chemistry Department Boise State University Lcarter at claven.idbsu.edu ------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 09:01:19 -0600 (CST) From: John Isenhour Subject: Do self proclaimed judges have responsibility? Well, anything to get the subject off of THE SCHISM! (tm). I was wondering if self proclaimed authorities have a public responsibility. What do you think of the following msg I got... > I sent a polite message to Al Korz > asking him to let up on his public criticism of Mark Garetz's book. It was > taking up alot of hbd space. For a while it seemed Korz had a daily diatribe > against Garetz and his theories. > > This is what I got in return: > > > > >Jeff- > >You cool it. I have contributed more to HBD than anyone else and my > >opinions are valued by virtually all the subscribers. If you don't > >value them, skip over them. I have collected a lot of brewing information > >over the last 9 years and you should be happy that I'm willing to share it > >for free with you. 99% of what I write is accurate and considering that > >it is all from my head, I'd say that's a lot better than you could muster. > > >Stop bugging me about Garetz. He is a swindler, knows little about brewing > >and is only out to make a buck and stroke his ego. His book is crap well > >beyond the useless formulas. Read my review of his book in the latest > >issue of Zymurgy. I only wish that I could have gotten it in there sooner > >and saved more people from wasting their money on it. If you are so stupid > >or naiive to believe that the rest of his book is worth the paper it is > >printed on, then that is not my problem, it is yours. > > > >Every time I see a post in which Garetz is painted in a positive light, I > >will post something negative about him. You can count on that. > > > >Now **** off and let me get back to my work. > > > >Al. ------------------------------ End of JudgeNet Digest ************************