From synchro!judge-request at uu6.psi.com Tue Feb 21 07:01:03 1995 Status: O X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["12883" "" "21" "February" "1995" "05:12:41" "EST" "JudgeNet Administrator" "judge-owner at synchro.com" nil "301" "JudgeNet Digest #976 (Feb 21, 1995)" "^From:" nil nil "2" nil nil nil nil] nil) Received: by judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.2) with X.500 id HAA09106; Tue, 21 Feb 1995 07:01:00 -0500 Received: from goodman.itn.med.umich.edu by judgmentday.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.2) with SMTP id HAA09098; Tue, 21 Feb 1995 07:00:59 -0500 Received: from uu6.psi.com by goodman.itn.med.umich.edu with SMTP id AA20006 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for spencer at umich.edu); Tue, 21 Feb 95 07:00:56 -0500 Received: from synchro.UUCP by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA21632 for ; Tue, 21 Feb 95 05:35:21 -0500 Received: by synchro.com (smail2.5) id AA08770; 21 Feb 95 05:12:41 EST (Tue) Reply-To: judge at synchro.com (JudgeNet) Errors-To: judge-error at synchro.com Precedence: bulk Message-Id: <9502210512.AA08770 at synchro.com> From: judge-owner at synchro.com (JudgeNet Administrator) To: judge-recipients at synchro.com (JudgeNet Recipients) Subject: JudgeNet Digest #976 (Feb 21, 1995) Date: 21 Feb 95 05:12:41 EST (Tue) JudgeNet Digest #976 Tue 21 Feb 1995 THE BEER JUDGE DIGEST digest submissions: judge at synchro.com administrative requests: judge-request at synchro.com send cancellations & rank updates to the administrative address messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored FTP Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu in /pub/judge WWW Archives: http://guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu/Beer/Judge Gopher Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu Editor: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publishers: SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery Contents: Future of BJCP (John DeCarlo ) Re: #4(4) JudgeNet Digest #975 (Feb 20, 1995) (GSMITHBEER) ANNOUNCEMENT-Independant Beer Judge Guild formed (BrewsMead) OPEN LETTER TO JOHN DALE ("PATRICK N. BAKER") ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 08:04:11 EST From: John DeCarlo Subject: Future of BJCP Does anyone have any information on whether the AHA plans to give the BJCP the money it is holding? Or are they planning on essentially stealing it for their new program? >CUMULATIVE PROGRAM NET: >The cash assets of the BJCP currently held by the AHA are estimated at >$4,538. Thanks for any info. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 06:36:32 PST From: GSMITHBEER at eworld.com Subject: Re: #4(4) JudgeNet Digest #975 (Feb 20, 1995) A notice about the Beast of the East Homebrew competition and conference. To be held on March 18-19 '95 Competition will be on Saturday the 18th at the Brown & Moran Brewpub in Troy, NY. After judging all judges and stewards gain free admission to the conference and beer tasting (a dozen micro's.) That evening there will be a brewers banquet (but there is a charge for that.) Conference is at the Troy Best Western call (518) 274 3210 to get the package room and banquet deal. On Sunday the 19th there will be a judge forum meeting with all judges invited to attend. The original intent was to discuss styles, etc. although it will not be directed and I wouldn't be surprised if it took another direction. To get information on entries or for judging contact Bill Giffin at (207) 737 2015 G. Smith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 07:50:02 PST From: BrewsMead at eworld.com Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT-Independant Beer Judge Guild formed An open letter to all judges -Please forward this to all off-line peers Can a blind man truly see thru the forests to the trees....and can you all see as we , that the existing BJCP ,AHA+HWBTA do not represent our needs.? In response to the lack of progress from the BJCP or the AHA (we were waiting for the straight skinny but must move on) , M.A.L.T. is taking the bull by the nuts and cutting off the oysters! We are forming our own Guild of Brewers and Judges , loosely based upon the concept of Artisans and Craftsmens Guilds from the Middle Ages. The rules for such a system were simple and ours are similar. You will fit into one of three classes based on your current status in the BJCP ; Apprentice , Journeyman or Master. As it did in those days , your honor is worn on the sleeve and your position is improved thru hard work and dedication to your trade. Master judges are those who know the classic styles of beer and have judged at least twenty five styles in competition with a more experienced peer. That peer will certify your experience points and pass you on thru the program. National+Certified judges will be Journeyman after judging 10 styles , while Apprentices are Recognised and Apprentices as we now know it. A test will also be put together that accurately reflects ones capabilities in this hobby. It will include multiple choice questions + essays , as well as a sense related portion that can be accurately analyzed to your capabilities and understanding of the styles involved. All judges will keep their own records for their experience and report it to the datbase as your level changes. The system will start off with a set fee structure to subsidize the printing and mailing of the Guild Recorder Booklets for your data base of competitions and styles judged. Pride will be instilled by your thorough understanding of these styles and transfer of knowledge to the brewer whose sample you evaluate and your peers. We will maintain the database as a major club and Charter Member of the Guild. We will transfer the database to another major club that has the resources to maintain it in July next year. I invite all clubs who are intrigued by this concept to forward to me a request to be listed as a charter member. No individuals will be allowed to hold any representative post due to the club oriented approach we intend to take. Those individuals that can not find a group of peers to join for whatever reason , may elect to join the Guild as an associate member. Their input and camaraderie are welcome but voting and representaton for the regions will be based on clubs. Clubs will have the ability to cast votes if issues do arise and they will be weighted based on size and number of judges. There will be a sanctioning structure to allow competitions to be certified. These fees will be minimal and used to offset the costs of the database maintenance and newletter. A National Jam - Beer - EE will be held each year with a competition and technical program will spread the wealth of knowledge available from the membership and the professional brewing community. The fee structure of this event will be reasonable and will help this fledgling organization garner resources for the operating budget as it grows into the pre-eminent association in the industry. You are all members at this date by your own interest in the BJCP and the betterment of homebrewing . If you are not interested in being involved in the future of our society , please contact me and we will delete you from our files. To date we have acquired the judge listings for the Northeast US in a ten state region included in the Beast of the East-Club Only HBC. We will need your support to gather up the rest of the national listing. We will propose that the guidelines of the Guild be incorporated as bylaws based on the M.A.L.T. version (which were based on many other clubs ') but modified for this groups dynamics. I am working on the beer style guidelines and intend to preserve the classic styles of fermented beverages made around the world. Any interested brewer or judge is welcome to take this task to committee and off my shoulders as soon as possible. This will be our guiding principle...to further the enjoyment and responsible use of fermented concoctions. We would like to take the best suggestions of many judges and brewers interested in the hobby forward in this venture. In that vein we will democratically elect a Guiding Council of Regional Representatives from 9 regions around the country and Canada. Northeast US Mid Atlantic Deep South Central States Plains Region Rocky Mountain Pacific Northwest Cal-Nev-Desert Canada These are arbitrary at present and need to be refined. The judges in each region will pick their own rep from their peers for handling the Guilds' affairs. As is customary in a deliberative society , Robert's Rules of Order will guide the discussions of this association. Any member may petition the council for change and their demands will be heard.The reps will deliberate and solve all issues before the Guild during their 1 year stint on the Council. Only the Vice-Chairman will stay on the board for 2 years to become Chair after one and lend continuity to the governance of the society. We think that the Guild will be able to certify that its members will exact upon brewers , the rigorous standards set by itself to provide service and further the promulgation of knowledge of this wonderful hobby. We will insist that competition organizers review judging sheets for acceptable work before allotting experience points to judges for their efforts. If you as a judge do not meet the standards of the Guild , points will not be allowed. Recourse for censure and demotion will be in the charter in case I or any other member gets too high falutin' in their attitudes and opinions. All Apprentices will work with Journeyman or Master judges to learn their trade according to our requirements. Palate and sense training will be a prime focus in our skill development program. Communication skills are most important and proper use of the new judging forms will be mandatory . Peer review will be practised during each judging session to prevent disservice to the brewers spending their hard earned money and time to further their capabilities. The Judges and Brewers from the Northeast US will be meeting in March at the Beast of the East competition and at that time will begin to elect a representative for our region. I suggest that you all do the same at your regional events coming up in the next few months. Since the AHA Nationals are coming to Baltimore in June , I propose that the council meet there for the better part of a morning (or afternoon based on the fun schedule I hear is kept) to flesh out the rest of this societys' needs and direction for 1995 and beyond. A truly independant society of judges with high standards for our hobby can exist without the political overtones seen here for the last two weeks. We are suggesting to all judges that no existing member of the BJCC , AHA or HWBTA be allowed to represent regions in this new society. We will move forward without the trappings of the old world and forge a new system that we can enjoy and sleep well at nite with.......... after a cool homemade beverage....... Long live the Guild! Bruce P. Stevens - MALT Prez til 2/26 All correspondence regarding the Guild can be sent here for the time being. We will try to conduct informational mailings here and via the US postal service In each region there are several clubs that organize competitions and beer events of noteworthiness. You know who you are and I'd appreciate it if you could send this along to those clubs that are active but without email. Please get together with your peers and get all the clubs in your region to submit a candidate for election to the Guiding Council. We are very serious about making this a sustainable society and would appreciate it if you could do your part to help this move forward. Change is good sometimes and now is the time!!! I'll follow up with a more complete breakdown of the regions and the major clubs involved in each as time goes forward. You all know how volunteer associations work and your patience and help is appreciated. The bylaws and beer guides will follow in due time and will all be voted on and ratified at the Assembly in Baltimore. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Feb 95 18:24:04 EST From: "PATRICK N. BAKER" <74443.3040 at compuserve.com> Subject: OPEN LETTER TO JOHN DALE Dear John: This is further response to your long rambling tirade of February 10, 1995. If you were not an AHA representative on the BJCC, it would be better for everyone's sensitivities if I ignored you. However, since you are their representative, your charges are more serious. One charge that is mysterious to me is your accusation that as Co-Director, I was dishonest in scoring, insubordinate to the BJCC and generally bullied people. I presume you refer to your period as chairman, since you haven't been very involved in what has beens going on since. You will recall that the BJCP By-laws state in Section II.F.1,(Program Staff,) that "The Co-Directors, Associate Directors, and Administrator shall be appointed by the Committee upon recommendation of the Presidents of each respective parent organization." This indicates that the Co-Director works for at at the pleasure of the BJCC. This said, and according to your accusation, you must have done the following as BJCC Chairman and member: 1. Tolerated dishonesty in a subordinate. 2. Tolerated insubordination in a subordinate. 3. Did not fulfill your responsibility to the BJCP. On the other hand, your accusation may be a lie. Please John, the public needs some sort of explanation. Regarding the exam grading incident you referred to, I will provide background and accurate details soon, because I consider your statement a gross distortion and insult. Very truly yours, Patrick Baker, BJCP Co-Director ------------------------------ End of JudgeNet Digest ************************