From synchro!judge-request at uu6.psi.com Sat Feb 18 07:38:04 1995 Status: RO X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["26729" "" "18" "February" "1995" "05:14:33" "EST" "JudgeNet Administrator" "judge-owner at synchro.com" nil "582" "JudgeNet Digest #973 (Feb 18, 1995)" "^From:" nil nil "2" nil nil nil nil] nil) Received: by truelies.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.2) with X.500 id HAA12673; Sat, 18 Feb 1995 07:38:02 -0500 Received: from goodman.itn.med.umich.edu by truelies.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.2) with SMTP id HAA12668; Sat, 18 Feb 1995 07:38:00 -0500 Received: from uu6.psi.com by goodman.itn.med.umich.edu with SMTP id AA02130 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for spencer at umich.edu); Sat, 18 Feb 95 07:37:53 -0500 Received: from synchro.UUCP by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA24376 for ; Sat, 18 Feb 95 05:12:19 -0500 Received: by synchro.com (smail2.5) id AA06430; 18 Feb 95 05:14:33 EST (Sat) Reply-To: judge at synchro.com (JudgeNet) Errors-To: judge-error at synchro.com Precedence: bulk Message-Id: <9502180514.AA06430 at synchro.com> From: judge-owner at synchro.com (JudgeNet Administrator) To: judge-recipients at synchro.com (JudgeNet Recipients) Subject: JudgeNet Digest #973 (Feb 18, 1995) Date: 18 Feb 95 05:14:33 EST (Sat) JudgeNet Digest #973 Sat 18 Feb 1995 THE BEER JUDGE DIGEST digest submissions: judge at synchro.com administrative requests: judge-request at synchro.com send cancellations & rank updates to the administrative address messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored FTP Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu in /pub/judge WWW Archives: http://guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu/Beer/Judge Gopher Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu Editor: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publishers: SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery Contents: Mystery of the Senses (jim) AHA Beer Judge Program (jim) Competition fees, boycotts (bickham) Re: bjcp essay questions ... (Spencer.W.Thomas) Call for Entries, Judges, Stewards! (Christopher Nemeth) BJCP FINANCES ("PATRICK N. BAKER") Bell Yenne's book, Beers of the World (bickham) Bill Yenne's Beers of the World (bickham) AHA National Comp. (Norman Dickenson) Dr. Beer phenolic samples (Ed Westemeier) Beer Blather ("PATRICK N. BAKER") Open Letter to John Dale ("PATRICK N. BAKER") ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 21:23:05 MST From: jim at dwrock.dw.att.com Subject: Mystery of the Senses Sometime ago someone on the JudgeNet recommended A Natural History of The Senses by Diane Ackerman. I have been waiting for the movie and it is time. The PBS miniseries "Mystery of the Senses" airs beginning February 19. This is based on Ackerman's book and she is the host. Check your local PBS schedules. Jim Homer jim at dwrock.dw.att.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 21:45:56 MST From: jim at dwrock.dw.att.com Subject: AHA Beer Judge Program The AHA will soon send a mailing out to all BJCP participants. This is at AHA expense, and is expected to mail out by the first of next week. This mailing will include: * An explanation of the reasons for cancelling AHA support of the BJCP. * The thoughts for the new AHA Judge Program. * A survey of participants of their views on the direction of the new program. I encourage all judges to carefully study this mailing before making any judgments about the efforts of the AHA. As for myself, I have discussed the issues with Karen and James, and have seen a draft of the mailing. I like the ideas that they have. I plan to support and aid the AHA in their effort to develop a new judge program. Jim Homer Former Co-Director (for the AHA) BJCP jim at dwrock.dw.att.com Disclaimer: This does not necessarily reflect the views of the AHA or any organization I am or have been affiliated with. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:10:30 -0500 (EST) From: bickham at msc.cornell.edu Subject: Competition fees, boycotts I must admit that I only threw out the suggestion of having judges pay a few bucks per competition to see how people felt. I agree that it should be the responsibility of the competition, but someone suggested a $2 fee per judge on top of a $40 sanctioning fee. I assume this would apply to stewards as well, since they also need to have records maintained. Therefore in an medium-sized competition with 20 judges, 10 stewards and 2 organizers, the fees will be $2 times (20+10+2) plus the $40 for a total of $104. Sorry folks, but we can't hold any competitions if we have to pay that much overhead. It was also mentioned that we could raise the entry fees to cover the difference, but if you've organized a competition, you know that $5 is about the limit to what brewers are willing to pay. From an economics standpoint, I mean that the revenue given by # of entries time the entry fee is maximized when the entry fee is $4 or $5. Increasing the fee to $6 would lead to fewer entries, less organizing and judging points, and less revenue to cover the overhead. As for a boycott of this years AHA Nationals, I think a better idea is to participate, but design T-shirts or buttons declaring your support for an independent BJCP. I plan to enter several beers this year that IMNSHO have a good chance to advance to the 2nd round, and I know that many people that read JudegNet have won awards in the past few years and probably will do so again this year. I think that having so many people visably in support of the New Order might make the AHA realize that they are going to lose the better judges and brewers if they maintain their course to Bastille Day. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 10:48:54 EST From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: Re: bjcp essay questions ... Tom Fitzpatrick asks about how to answer BJCP exam questions, with a specific example: Describe and differentiate the different sub-categories of English Bitter and Scottish Ale. He wonders how many pages he should write. My understanding is that you should aim for a 1-page answer. You figure out what to say that fits in that constraint. I'd do it like this: first discuss the substyles, then the similarities (mostly low gravity session beers, low carbonation, etc.), then the differences (bitter is more bitter, hoppier, scottish more malt accented, perhaps a bit darker color), then talk about the process differences (mashing/brewing technique, fermentation temp, etc.), that lead to the flavor differences, and perhaps throw in a little history (e.g., the Scots use fewer hops because they aren't grown in Scotland and were therefore expensive.) IMHO, the "baffle em with lotsa bulls**t" is a VERY BAD approach on this exam. The graders are not dumb, and will be able to tell when you are bulls**ting them. A concise, organized answer with depth, which shows that you *could* write pages, is much better than a long, rambling answer. Also, you don't have *time* to write that much for each question. =Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:01:05 -0600 (CST) From: Christopher Nemeth Subject: Call for Entries, Judges, Stewards! CALL FOR ENTRIES! CALL FOR JUDGES, STEWARDS and APPRENTICES! ** The Seventh Evanston First Homebrew Challenge ** will be held Sunday, April 9, 1995. This AHA/HWBTA sanctioned event invites entries in all 1995 AHA categories. All judges, stewards and apprentice judges are welcome! For homebrewing entry forms, judge/steward/apprentice registration forms by return snailmail, please provide street/city/zip code to organizer Christopher Nemeth , or voice phone 708.869.3621. ***Details: ENTRIES AHA/HWBTA Sanctioned. Organizer's report submitted in 3 days. Only two bottles and $3 required per entry. Due on April 2, 1995. Ship to: Evanston First Liquors Homebrewing Department, 1019 W.Davis Street, Evanston, IL 60201 AWARDS Merchandise awards and rosette ribbons to Best of Show winners. Ribbons to top three winners in each final category. Awards will be announced to cheering crowds at 5:00PM (see BIG EVENT below). BIG EVENT Evanston First Liquors will hold a highly maltaceous American microbrewery tasting on Sunday, April 9. As a thank you to the judges and stewards, all who help with the judging will receive *free* admission. _YOWSAH!_ APPRENTICE JUDGE TRAINING Want to judge but:(a) not a member of the BJCP, or (b) ducking the crossfire until all of the flap about reorganization dies down? No problem! Anyone interested in being an apprentice judge and steward is invited to register and attend a half hour orientation before judging. FURTHER INFO Evanston First Homebrew Challenge Organizer is Christopher Nemeth (AHA/HWBTA Certified Judge, member Chicago Beer Society). Contact at , or voice 708.869.3621. Thanks for your interest! ****** To CBS-HB and JudgeNet members: Would appreciate your assistance in passing this notice via AOL, Prodigy, etc. Thanks in advance! ------------------------------ Date: 17 Feb 95 11:15:46 EST From: "PATRICK N. BAKER" <74443.3040 at compuserve.com> Subject: BJCP FINANCES A general reply to misrepresentations and distortions in John Dale's recent venomous post is not practical. However, I am pleased to respond individually to questions posted to me at the above address. I will also respond to specific misrepresentations in JudgeNet and the first one is BJCP economics. Dale says " The AHA works to support ont only their own paid staff but programs like the BJCP. No, the program was never fully financially self-supporting, even though you thought the exam fees were much too high." This is a lie. The program had a net cumulative surplus for 1994 of $2,781 at the end of June, according to AHA accounting records. The BJCP had a cumulative surplus of $1710 during its eight year life through December 31, 1993, based on BJCP accounting records. Furthermore, the AHA has improperly published and incorporated BJCP financial data in their AHA financial profile, published it in Zymurgy. The 1993 data published in Summer 1994 Zymurgy indicated a BJCP surplus of $3096. The above surplus was in spite of the AHA not making a contribution to cover filing of experience points from AHA sanctioned competitions in 1993 and 1994. If anyone would like to confirm the above and look at the latest BJCP financial report to which John Dale had access, please send a SASE to Pat Baker, P.O.Box 81, Keene, NH 03431, For the time being, Pat Baker ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 11:43:41 -0500 (EST) From: bickham at msc.cornell.edu Subject: Bell Yenne's book, Beers of the World This is a new aquisition for my beer library, thanks to my dear mother down in Texas. I'm not that familiar with Bill Yenne, but according to Jay Hersh's guide to Belgium, he has written books on beer labels. This is apparent in this book, with many color photos of beer bottles, cans and labels. In this respect, I would say that the book is written around the pictures, as opposed to Jackson, who supplements the text with pictures. Beers of the World is pretty well-written, with only a few typographical and grammatical errors, and the pictures are high quality. The text is really not a tasters guide to beers, but more of a guide to what's available with some history thrown in for depth. I particularly liked the early history of beer, which expandedon some of Alan Eames' articles that I've read, and the corporate restructuring of various breweries around the world was interesting as well. There were some technical flaws that caught my attention. One was his comment that (I'm paraphrasing here) Belgian abbey beers are the same as Trappist beers. He seems to be confused about the difference, because later he admits that Corsendonk is not a Trappist abbey and some abbeys lend their name to commercial breweries. Of course the correct answer (this question was on my first BJCP exam) is that there are only 6 Trappist breweries, in the sense that the monks are in the Trappist order and the beer is brewed on the premises. A second flaw, also in the section on Belgium, was the inclusion of Liefmans with the lambics. Again, Yenne may have been confused by the common krieks and framboise flavored varieties of both, but Liefmans kreik is based on an Oud Bruin, not a lambic. Finally, the last flagrant error was the comment that ice beers have twice the alcohol content of normal brews due to the removal of water. I don't know where he learned this, but while Canadian ice beers such as Labatts are slightly more alcoholic, the ice that is removed by breweries in the U.S. must be replaced, otherwise the beer becomes a distilled product and can no longer be sold as beer. Just thought I'd write about something else for a change ;-) Scott - -- ======================================================================== Scott Bickham bickham at msc.cornell.edu ========================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 11:47:56 -0500 (EST) From: bickham at msc.cornell.edu Subject: Bill Yenne's Beers of the World This is a new aquisition for my beer library, thanks to my dear mother down in Texas. I'm not that familiar with Bill Yenne, but according to Jay Hersh's guide to Belgium, he has written books on beer labels. This is apparent in this book, with many color photos of beer bottles, cans and labels. In this respect, I would say that the book is written around the pictures, as opposed to Jackson, who supplements the text with pictures. Beers of the World is pretty well-written, with only a few typographical and grammatical errors, and the pictures are high quality. The text is really not a tasters guide to beers, but more of a guide to what's available with some history thrown in for depth. I particularly liked the early history of beer, which expandedon some of Alan Eames' articles that I've read, and the corporate restructuring of various breweries around the world was interesting as well. There were some technical flaws that caught my attention. One was his comment that (I'm paraphrasing here) Belgian abbey beers are the same as Trappist beers. He seems to be confused about the difference, because later he admits that Corsendonk is not a Trappist abbey and some abbeys lend their name to commercial breweries. Of course the correct answer (this question was on my first BJCP exam) is that there are only 6 Trappist breweries, in the sense that the monks are in the Trappist order and the beer is brewed on the premises. A second flaw, also in the section on Belgium, was the inclusion of Liefmans with the lambics. Again, Yenne may have been confused by the common krieks and framboise flavored varieties of both, but Liefmans kreik is based on an Oud Bruin, not a lambic. Finally, the last flagrant error was the comment that ice beers have twice the alcohol content of normal brews due to the removal of water. I don't know where he learned this, but while Canadian ice beers such as Labatts are slightly more alcoholic, the ice that is removed by breweries in the U.S. must be replaced, otherwise the beer becomes a distilled product and can no longer be sold as beer. Just thought I'd write about something else for a change ;-) Scott - -- ======================================================================== Scott Bickham bickham at msc.cornell.edu ========================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:39:18 -0800 From: Norman Dickenson Subject: AHA National Comp. AHA National Comp. I receive the following E-Mail from a respected homebrewer: Subject: Beer Blather THIS IS BETTY ANN SATHER SPEAKING. Dear Fellow Beeros, Regarding beer blather and communication etiquette: I have a personal rule regarding communications on E-mail. Before submitting something, I sleep on it, to assure myself that my comments have been constructive and that they are stated in a succinct fashion. A couple of hundred people are going to read it, and I think about what impression they will have of me once they read it. I also try to make sure that things I present as facts, are true, before posting. I think public conjecturing and supposing are harmful. I also do not feel that reams of blather are useful and prefer to read concise, well thoughtout opinions and facts. This is a critical time for the Beer Judge Certification Program and I urge everyone to reflect awhile, get your facts in order, organize your thoughts and then present them in a cogent, concise, and constructive manner. I may sound like it, but I'm really not anyone's Mother. However, I am disappointed in the level of communications on Judgenet. Cheers, Betty Ann Sather ------------------------------ Date: 17 Feb 95 21:44:56 EST From: "PATRICK N. BAKER" <74443.3040 at compuserve.com> Subject: Open Letter to John Dale THIS IS BETTY ANN SATHER SPEAKING Dear John, Quoting you. "Pat is fully retired and, to my knowledge, has no major interests outside of beer". This statement does not fit our life or the person I know well. Although Patrick has retired from his thirty four year career in the chemical industry, he is a very active chemical consultant. I know, as he has turned down more work than he has accepted in 1995 due to overload and that also, our computer has been upgraded recently to handle the volume. We travel a lot, related to beer and chemicals, or course, but also with opera, museums, jazz and family visits included. Patrick's interest in music is much better developed than mine with years of singing in chorales in Connectticut and New York state and also singing in the church choir. Who else do you know who has sung Carmina Burana? We both share a love of jazz. Who else do you know that has had lunch with Dave Brubeck? The jazz clubs in Brussels were most enjoyable during our recent month there. Our shared new interest in opera has opened another musical door for us. We are active members of the Monadnock Squares. He is a superb do so do-er (his square dance experience dates back to 1950) and he looks great in his bright purple shirt to match my bright purple crinoline. We are also taking Round dance lessons, so are out dancing three nights per week. The square dance motto is "Friendliness set to music". Like in homebrew, we enjoy the people we meet square dancing. Patrick is a Master level competitive duplicate bridge player.(Dating back to 1958) He supports the local Keene club. He and his partner are teaching a beginner and intermediate level bridge class to try to encourage more players. We moved here partly because of our love of the outdoors. We've canoed major stretches of both of our local rivers. Patrick is always trying to convince me to climb Mt. Monadnock with him. Once was enough, as he's much fitter than I am,(I'm not divulging the age difference. Suffice to say, I'm younger, I think.) but he has found others to hike the steep climbs with him. We love to hike to the reservoir in Pisagh State Wilderness Park though. I advise you to never watch any Shakespeare videos with Patrick. He knows significant parts of them - mostly the classic quotes and you will have to admonish him to be quiet so you can hear the actors. He is great at explaining the plot and helping me to learn to love them. Did you know that Patrick was elected to the Planning and Zoning Commission in Weston, CT for 13 years. He is justly proud of his work for the community where he grew up. Patrick has had the advantage or an execellent education and through his wide ranging business experiences has a very broad world view. This makes him a very interesting companion. His intelligence and great sense of humour juxtaposed with his serious side was what attracted me to him. John, I could go on and on, but I think you may be beginning to understand that you really don't know what you are talking about. I could have made many nasty comments about other things you said concerning Pat, Chuck, the BJCP, and judges in general but I did not want to lower myself to your destructive and slanderous tone. I sincerely hope you reflect on what you have said publicly on Judgnet and that you have the humility to learn from the negative reactions of others. I saw your deserved apology to Chuck Cox on Judgenet. I think you owe Patrick a public apology as well. I also think that if you have a sense of fairness, and if you care about beer judges, and if you think about the many, many hours others have put into bringing about the success of the BJC program you will resign from the BJC Committee immediately. Patrick has no need to have spent all this time and effort to stroke his ego. He did it for the love of beer and homebrewing and fortunately was in the financial position to devote the time and energy to it. I do not think your attitudes fits the vision most of us have with the word "homebrewing". In my opinion, your attitude is not constructive to the long-term success of the Beer Judge Certification Program. To me, you comments are a major embarrassment to the AHA also. I think, you have let Karen down. So John, it's up to you. I sincerely wish you well and hope you are able to turn this very negative experience into a positive, by learning from it and making some needed changes in the way you deal with people and issues. Your attitude does not fit my impression of what Charlie Papazian and the American Homebrewers Association is all about. Yours truly, Betty Ann Sather c.c. Karen Barela, Cathy Ewing, Charlie Papazian ------------------------------ End of JudgeNet Digest ************************