From synchro!judge-request at uu6.psi.com Fri Feb 10 06:20:09 1995 Status: O X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["11015" "" "10" "February" "1995" "05:13:08" "EST" "JudgeNet Administrator" "judge-owner at synchro.com" nil "291" "JudgeNet Digest #965 (Feb 10, 1995)" "^From:" nil nil "2" nil nil nil nil] nil) Received: by totalrecall.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.3) with X.500 id GAA15216; Fri, 10 Feb 1995 06:20:07 -0500 Received: from goodman.itn.med.umich.edu by totalrecall.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.3) with SMTP id GAA15211; Fri, 10 Feb 1995 06:20:06 -0500 Received: from uu6.psi.com by goodman.itn.med.umich.edu with SMTP id AA20310 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for spencer at umich.edu); Fri, 10 Feb 95 06:20:01 -0500 Received: from synchro.UUCP by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA23237 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 95 05:12:08 -0500 Received: by synchro.com (smail2.5) id AA15737; 10 Feb 95 05:13:08 EST (Fri) Reply-To: judge at synchro.com (JudgeNet) Errors-To: judge-error at synchro.com Precedence: bulk Message-Id: <9502100513.AA15737 at synchro.com> From: judge-owner at synchro.com (JudgeNet Administrator) To: judge-recipients at synchro.com (JudgeNet Recipients) Subject: JudgeNet Digest #965 (Feb 10, 1995) Date: 10 Feb 95 05:13:08 EST (Fri) JudgeNet Digest #965 Fri 10 Feb 1995 THE BEER JUDGE DIGEST digest submissions: judge at synchro.com administrative requests: judge-request at synchro.com send cancellations & rank updates to the administrative address messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored FTP Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu in /pub/judge WWW Archives: http://guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu/Beer/Judge Gopher Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu Editor: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publishers: SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery Contents: HWBTA National Competition Results? (Lynn Danielson) Colorado Springs Representatives (Dave Resch) Exam Announcement (John Isenhour) Dr. Beer (Frank J Dobner +1 708 979 5124) competition is harmful (John Isenhour) Stop the Brew-Ha-Ha ("Brian P. Lewis") Q's on Blind Brewing (FCHAMBERS) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 16:39:49 -0700 (MST) From: lynnd at ihs.com (Lynn Danielson) Subject: HWBTA National Competition Results? Would someone please post or mail me the results of the HWBTA Nationals competition? Thanks in advance. Lynn Danielson lynnd at ihs.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 07:33:27 -0700 (MST) From: resch at craycos.com (Dave Resch) Subject: Colorado Springs Representatives Aaron Birenboim writes: > > Lets get the names out by locality now. We can do this in parallel > with forming the administration structure. > > I'm in denver, CO. Brian ... could you contact Ft. Collins Judges? > I could contact boulderites... but I might need some help with the > politics of soem judges around here. Many are personal friends of CP. > Anybody on the list from Colo. Spgs? Dave Rescch??? > > aaron > Yes, I am in Colorado Springs as is at least one other judge with net access, John Landreman (jlandreman at atmel.com). I am willing to do some coordination with local judges here and I am sure that John would be willing to help also. We are currently offering a BJCP exam preparation course with about 20 participants and are keeping them abreast of what is being discussed in this forum. Dave Resch ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 12:48:54 -0600 (CST) From: John Isenhour Subject: Exam Announcement I would like to announce a BJCP exam, its scheduled for april 1st (oddly appropriate:). It will occur in St. Louis, location to be announced. Details can be obtained from Ginger (wotring at sluava.slu.edu) or myself isenhour at alexia.lis.uiuc.edu I'm not really fond of these early morning tests (mine in '89 started at 8am) so it will be around noon or 1:00 to let people who need to drive into town get here without having to get up too early. -john ------------------------------ Date: 9 Feb 95 12:51:00 -0600 From: fjdobner at intgp1.att.com (Frank J Dobner +1 708 979 5124) Subject: Dr. Beer In response to Jay Hersh's post for the Dr. Beer sessions, there was a reference to "corn spirits" for use in simulating esters. I pursued this and found that legal moonshine would be a good source for the corn spirits. This translates into two commercially available products that I know of: Georgia Moon and Kentucky Moonshine. I was fortunate enough to get a hold of the former. Unfortunately the results were far less than exciting. The aromatic and taste character of this stuff in a bland beer (Coors Light) were more bready (possibly yeast-like) than estery. For our Dr. Beer session we ended up using 4 to 5 drops of both the HopTech peach and pear fruit concentrates. That turned out OK but it is not really what I would call a real complex fermented ester character that you would seek. Frank Dobner Aurora (Wayne's World), Illinois ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 12:42:29 -0600 (CST) From: John Isenhour Subject: competition is harmful Al writes: > (another) John writes: > >particularly ask the AHA to support an independent BJCP and avoid the > >seriously harmful position of creating another competing organization. > > I support John's position 100%. A competing certification program would > be very harmful. I have already notified Russ that I will continue to > support the BJCP. I dont see anything "seriously" or "very" harmful in having competing organizations, I think it has the potential to keep things healthy and growing. Instead of an arms race, it would be a beer race! Each side would have something to compete against, and we might all win. Competition between researchers and businesses keeps them on their toes and actively trying to improve things. With a monoply, it can be no choice, no voice, or at least less than if a competitior offers a better service (like a better exam with accurate and precise feedback). I'd just like to see what the plans are. Is the sky really falling? My keg is half full, not half empty. -john - -- John Isenhour AHA/HWBTA BJCP N rank judge "unix is not your mother" National High Energy Physics Network Management isenhour at hep.net Library & Information Science isenhour at alexia.lis.uiuc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 9:59:17 MST From: "Brian P. Lewis" Subject: Stop the Brew-Ha-Ha In reading the posts of the last few days I have noticed some comments that puzzle me. First the relief expressed by a couple of people that they will no longer have to maintain memberships in the AHA to have judging points recorded. Why? I have been in the BJCP program for two years now and accumulated a few experience points for judging and competition organizing. I have never held a membership in the AHA but I still received the one or two mailed updates of my BJCP records. What's the issue anyway? The other is all the talk about the need for immediate change. All in all, the BJCP program is pretty good as it stands. Yes there are problems and legitimate concerns which have come up here in the digest that are worth addressing but why the urgency? Right now making sure the program survives is the most urgent task at hand. Attempting to change the whole thing is inviting confusion and disorganization that may alienate current judges and dissuade them from continuing to participate. Why not take care of the really important issues first and work on change when the dust settles? All this talk of a "democratic" "independent" organization is fine but we all know that the slowest possible way to affect change is by attempting to reach a consensus among a large number of people. What is required is decision and action. Elect an executive and allow them to do what is required. If the majority don't like the results then elect a new one next term. Here are a few suggestions; Elect an executive and carry on. Begin sanctioning competitions (for a fee) and become "the" sanctioning body. (this should not be difficult) As someone already suggested, sanction any reasonable competition and provide a list of the BJCP judges in the area. Continue giving the exam (in it's present format) and collect the same fee. If the above are handled promptly the homebrewing community will relax and accept the minor changes for what they are and the future of the program is all but assured. On the other hand, if an attempt is made to change too many aspects of the program and the process drags on, there will be a great deal of uncertainty out there. Stop the AHA/Charlie P./Karen B. bashing! There are a lot of people out there who appreciate what the AHA and it's representatives have accomplished. Try to think of an individual who has done more to promote homebrewing than Charlie Papazian. Why not work with the AHA instead of attacking it. Above all do NOT attempt to charge "membership" dues for current (or future) BJCP judges. I for one will not pay a dime for the "privilege" of having my name and experience points recorded in a database somewhere. Every time a judge travels to participate in a competition it costs $$. The closest competition to me (other than the local club annual open) is a three hour drive. The expenses incurred are not trivial but I try to go because I love beer and I love judging. I even seriously considered traveling to the first round of last year's AHA nationals which would have been an 1100 mile drive each way. I also know that there are many judges out there who do the same, you could not possibly amass the experience points some of you have without a considerable amount of travel. That said, if the BJCP tells me that I must pay a fee for recording my experience I will decline but I will still go out of my way to judge when there is an opportunity. Of course I may no longer be welcome without the recognition of the BJCP but I will not pay for that! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 23:04:35 -0500 From: FCHAMBERS at aol.com Subject: Q's on Blind Brewing Hello Everyone! I=92ve been lurking in this discussion group for about a year now. Many= things I learned here have improved my brewing technique, and general b= eer knowledge. I have a few questions for the group mind: = I am a legally blind home brewer who usually brews, bottles , and dri= nks with other people. Lately, I=92ve been bottling alone, and was wonderi= ng whether any of you know of any tricks I can use while bottling. One pro= blem is that I=92m using an old fashioned two-handed bottle capper. I plan t= o go purchase a stand-up, table mount model before bottling another batch. W= ith the old fashioned model, I have to hold the bottle between my knees or my= feet as I carefully line-up the contraption over the full bottle with a sterile cap on top. I cannot tell you how many times I misaligned the capper, bent a cap, or knocked the cap off, and had to grab a new one fro= m the sterile cap bucket. It is very fatiguing and frustrating. = How can I cap easier? Will the table top capper be a big improvement? W= hich models can you recommend? What should I look for? Do you have any other= bits of advice about bottling or brewing blind? How about other types= of caps? (I=92ve heard of different types that may be easier.) = Thanks, Fred *********************************************************************** FChambers at aol.com = Frederick M. Chambers Phone: (619) 434-3013 = Fax: (619) 452-1688 = 3510 Bedford Circle = Carlsbad, California, USA 92008 = ************************************************************************ ------------------------------ End of JudgeNet Digest ************************