From synchro!judge-request at uu6.psi.com Tue Feb 7 06:21:10 1995 X-VM-Summary-Format: "%n %*%a %-17.17F %-3.3m %2d %4l/%-5c %I\"%s\"\n" X-VM-Labels: nil X-VM-VHeader: ("Resent-" "From:" "Sender:" "To:" "Apparently-To:" "Cc:" "Subject:" "Date:" "X-Digest") nil X-VM-Bookmark: 1 Status: O X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["13448" "" " 7" "February" "1995" "05:13:47" "EST" "JudgeNet Administrator" "judge-owner at synchro.com" nil "351" "JudgeNet Digest #962 (Feb 07, 1995)" "^From:" nil nil "2" nil nil nil nil] nil) Received: by totalrecall.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.3) with X.500 id GAA16726; Tue, 7 Feb 1995 06:21:08 -0500 Received: from goodman.itn.med.umich.edu by totalrecall.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.3) with SMTP id GAA16721; Tue, 7 Feb 1995 06:21:06 -0500 Received: from uu6.psi.com by goodman.itn.med.umich.edu with SMTP id AA15352 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for spencer at umich.edu); Tue, 7 Feb 95 06:21:03 -0500 Received: from synchro.UUCP by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA06427 for ; Tue, 7 Feb 95 04:44:27 -0500 Received: by synchro.com (smail2.5) id AA28290; 7 Feb 95 05:13:47 EST (Tue) Reply-To: judge at synchro.com (JudgeNet) Errors-To: judge-error at synchro.com Precedence: bulk Message-Id: <9502070513.AA28290 at synchro.com> From: judge-owner at synchro.com (JudgeNet Administrator) To: judge-recipients at synchro.com (JudgeNet Recipients) Subject: JudgeNet Digest #962 (Feb 07, 1995) Date: 7 Feb 95 05:13:47 EST (Tue) JudgeNet Digest #962 Tue 07 Feb 1995 THE BEER JUDGE DIGEST digest submissions: judge at synchro.com administrative requests: judge-request at synchro.com send cancellations & rank updates to the administrative address messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored FTP Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu in /pub/judge WWW Archives: http://guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu/Beer/Judge Gopher Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu Editor: Chuck Cox Archivist: Spencer Thomas Publishers: SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery Contents: BJCP independence (Dion Hollenbeck) Beer judging and tasting (TPuskar) focus (Aaron Birenboim) Re: What Now? (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) future plans (Jeff Frane) BJCC Status ("Rad Equipment") BJCC Status Time:9:20 AM Date:2/6/95 Call for Judges (David Klein) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 07:18:40 PST From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: BJCP independence Since people are talking about the BJCP being completely independent, why not get hooked up with a mailing list started to promote more member participation in the AHA at the decision making level. Lots of these people favored just breaking away from the AHA completely and forming an independent association of homebrew clubs. Maybe some of the discussions and members of this mailing list would be valuable as cross-pollination efforts. AHA_DEMO at x.org dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:35:22 -0500 From: TPuskar at aol.com Subject: Beer judging and tasting I've been receiving the Digest foir a few weeks now. I subscribed hopingthat I could learn more about how to appreciate different beers and objectively evaluate thier taste as per some established standards. Seems like I subscribed at the wrong time!!! The digest seems to be overcome with the political aspects of its existence. Before all of you experienced and dedicated judges charge off to save the programs of your choice, could someone recommend a book, FAQ or some other document which I could use to learn more about beer tasting? I am especially interested in developing solutions (presumably in a base brew of some sort) so I can experience (taste) the various flavors described for various beers. For example, I'm not sure I really appreciate the diacetyl taste or how it might taste in one of my brews. Same thing can be said for some of the esters I hear described. Any help here would be appreciated. While it is my intenetion to get into tasting and judging at some point, I thi nk I'll wait until the political dust settles. If there are any judges out there in MOnmouth or Ocean Cty, NJ who would be willing to serve as mentor, drop me a line. I'll provide the beer!! Good luck to all of you dedicated judges. Hope this political thing clears up soon so you can all dedicate yourselves to the really important things like helping us nanobrewers make better beer. Tom Puskar ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 07:50:40 -0800 From: mole at netcom.com (Aaron Birenboim) Subject: focus I have had some time to think about what shoudl be done in order to form the new, independant BJCP. 1) Make as few changes as possible at this time. Make it look as much like the old BJCP as possible, with new administration. 2) Get a new administrative structure set up. 3) Make a charter outlining purpose, scope, and methods to introduce change. 4) After a new administration is organized, we can worry about change. I like Rick's idea of trying to spread administration to local levels, making the work possible by an all-volunteer staff (at least at first). First order of buisiness : Lets get together the database, and distribute it. I am a freeware fan.... is there a simple database system we can use which is freeware? If not... how about a freeware spreadsheet? Lets get the names out by locality now. We can do this in parallel with forming the administration structure. I'm in denver, CO. Brian ... could you contact Ft. Collins Judges? I could contact boulderites... but I might need some help with the politics of soem judges around here. Many are personal friends of CP. Anybody on the list from Colo. Spgs? Dave Rescch??? aaron ------------------------------ Date: 6 Feb 95 11:33:00 -0600 From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Re: What Now? Aaron writes: >General ideas on charter: I'm just including the ones on which I'd like to comment. > Certification and points by STYLE. This is a very costly proposition. We have discussed it several times both here in JudgeNet and in other forums. Nobody has yet to propose a feasable, cost-effective way to do this. If you have ideas, let's hear them. > Testing will NOT, i repeat NOT involve memorization. > People will be allowed to bring references to the test, and > style guidelines will be available for beers tasted in the test. This makes a lot of sense. We are not expected to rely on our memories when we judge, so why rely on our memories when we are tested? I think that the exam should test whether you are capable of identifying problems with the beer, identifying how a beer has strayed from its intended style and can you communicate all this to the brewer. > Most of test shoudl be based on weather you can TASTE things. > (most of score based on judging portion) Yes, but a judge should also be knowledgable about sources of problems and be able to write about these problems. > Provide FEEDBACK on tests. Have proctors write a note... > heres where you need improvement... There is already this feedback, but it is rather nebulous. I don't see what's wrong with getting back a copy of your graded exam. > Guidelines a competition should follow for "certification"... There already is a package for certification, however, it could be more detailed, for example, how many weeks before the competition should you send out the request for judges? ******* John writes: >As a member of the AHA and a Certified BJCP judge, I would like to >particularly ask the AHA to support an independent BJCP and avoid the >seriously harmful position of creating another competing organization. I support John's position 100%. A competing certification program would be very harmful. I have already notified Russ that I will continue to support the BJCP. Al. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 08:28:53 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Frane Subject: future plans First of all, I would like to make one thing clear: although I know that a lot of people don't have much use for the AHA's Board of Advisors (given that they are strictly an *advisory* group, and that they are not democratically elected), I would still like to go on record -- this was not a decision reached in conjunction with the BofA. The first I heard of it was when Karen's letter arrived, which was the same day I saw it here. Karen has asked us for feedback, and she will certainly get *that*, but the decision was made at AHA Staff Headquarters. Secondly, as appalled as I was by the decision and the way it was arrived at and announced, I will say that this provides a real opportunity for the BJCP to stand on its own. I have long held that the program *must* be independent, and frankly have never been able to understand why it shouldn't manage. Having just proctored an examination in which 8 people paid $50 each to *take* the exam, I am further mystified. I've seen some very good suggestions here for democratizing the program, and I think it's important that the BJCC *immediately* do a mailing to all the judges in the database, informing them of the AHA's decision and explaining the determination to keep things going. I think it will be essential to charge an annual fee to judges to maintain the database and the program services. $10 is, I think, a reasonable starting figure, something that isn't out of line and will provide needed capital. I think it's absolutely critical that the BJCP not dither around, but get out to judges as quickly as humanly possible to explain the situation. It's true that the AHA has Zymurgy as a soapbox, and can likewise directly contact judges, but this communication should come from the BJCP and encourage the judges to participate directly. It's patently ridiculous that the AHA should suggest the need for *two* groups of judges, or that they should suggest that the BJCP stop calling itself by that name. The question of "sponsorship" should also not intrude. Having an organization, be it the HWBTA or the AHA *sponsor* a competition is not the same as having it *sanctioned* by the BJCP. Sanctioning implies that the standards of the competition, the organizers and the judges are up to snuff. "Sponsoring" should imply some financial support, something that has definitely been lacking in the past. The AHA's national competition should be *sanctioned* by the BJCP, which is to say that the BJCP will assure a supply of quality judges and assure that the finest standards are met. The same goes for any competition, large or small. Finally, I nominate Russ Wigglesworth for President. - --Jeff Frane ------------------------------ Date: 6 Feb 1995 09:37:32 U From: "Rad Equipment" Subject: BJCC Status Subject: BJCC Status Time:9:20 AM Date:2/6/95 The following list are individuals who have expressed interest in filling the at-large delegate positions on the BJCC. I will continue to collect names until February 15. If you are interested please communicate with me by then. Tom Ayres, Burlington VT. Scott Bickham, Ithica NY Lee Bussey, Wichita KS Chuck Cox, Boston MA Steve Dempsey, Hillsboro OR Norman Dickenson, Santa Rosa CA Jim Liddil, Tucson AZ Jim Link, Shelton CT Martin Lodahl, Auburn CA Ed Westemeier, Cincinnati OH The BJCC is working toward the continuance of the BJCP as an independent entity. Unfortunately not all the current members are "wired" and so we move a little slower than this august group. Please bear with us. I will keep you informed as to our progress. Also forgive me if I do not indulge in the discussions here. I have my hands full at the moment. I am reading everything which comes along. RW... Russ Wigglesworth (INTERNET: Rad_Equipment at radmac1.ucsf.edu - CI$: 72300,61) UCSF Dept. of Radiology, San Francisco, CA (415) 476-3668 / Home (707) 769-0425 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 11:59:45 -0800 (PST) From: David Klein Subject: Call for Judges Well, I was getting ready to post this when the storm of the AHA's announcement hit. I was planning to wait for a bit, but with the immenent arrival of James Spence's letter, I felt it might just be a *long* while... So here it is, try not to be too pissy at the whole system to not come on by, it should be a fun competition, and 5 years from now you can remember it as the last competition from the good 'ol days. (for what it is worth I also throw in a vote for this being a blessing is disguise, and that we should use it to create a better run judging system) FIRST ANNUAL WORLD CUP OF BEER HOMEBREW COMPETITION Homebrew Judges, In the spirit of recognizing the development of endemic styles of beer, the Bay Area Mashers are proud to present the 1st annual World Cup of Beer Homebrew Competition. We invite you to enter and judge this event. The competition is sanctioned by the American Homebrewers Association, and is being sponsored by numerous west coast beer related businesses. The deadline for receiving entries is March 15, 1994; The judge registration deadline is March 1, 1994. Final judging will be conducted on March 26, in Oakland. All beers will be judged by experienced judges, including local professional brewers and Dr. Michael Lewis of UC Davis. Ribbons and prizes will be awarded to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place finishers in each category, and to Best of Show. After judging, we invite you to a party at the nearby Barclays Pub and Restaurant to celebrate all efforts and award the winners. This will be an excellent opportunity to share homebrew and interact with the professional and amateur brewers who are reviving quality brewing in the Bay Area. To receive more information via email including style descriptions entry forms, and a judge registration form, please send an email request to: klein at physics.berkeley.edu and indicate whether you want to receive a text or postscript package; or if you would like to receive the information via US mail. Sincerely, David Klein Competition Coordinator (510) 527-4508 ------------------------------ End of JudgeNet Digest ************************