From synchro!judge-request at uu6.psi.com Sat May 14 06:30:50 1994 Received: from uu6.psi.com by goodman.itn.med.umich.edu with SMTP id AA10624 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for spencer at hendrix.itn.med.umich.edu); Sat, 14 May 94 06:30:46 -0400 Received: from synchro.UUCP by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA26982 for ; Sat, 14 May 94 06:13:00 -0400 Received: by synchro.com (smail2.5) id AA22977; 14 May 94 05:24:08 EDT (Sat) Reply-To: judge at synchro.com (JudgeNet) Errors-To: judge-error at synchro.com Precedence: bulk Message-Id: <9405140524.AA22977 at synchro.com> Status: O X-Status: From: judge-request at synchro.com (JudgeNet Administrator) To: judge-recipients at synchro.com (JudgeNet Recipients) Subject: JudgeNet Digest #760 (May 14, 1994) Date: 14 May 94 05:24:08 EDT (Sat) JudgeNet Digest #760 Sat 14 May 1994 THE BEER JUDGE DIGEST Chuck Cox , publisher Michael Hall , archive administrator digest submissions to judge at synchro.com administrative requests to judge-request at synchro.com send rank updates to the administrative address messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored FTP archive information in /pub/judge/README on cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov Published by SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery Contents: Re: JudgeNet Digest #759 (May 13, 1994) (Norman Farrell) BJCP Questions ("Rad Equipment") BJCP Questions Time:7:15 AM Date:5/13/94 GCHC (Carlo Fusco) exam questions (Rich Lenihan) Why open-ended questions? (Spencer.W.Thomas) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 08:05:25 -0500 From: nfarrell at ppco.com (Norman Farrell) Subject: Re: JudgeNet Digest #759 (May 13, 1994) Jim wrote: >Why is the exam all essay? >Why are the questions all rather open ended and subjective, except the one >about the program itself. Like these two: 22. Describe the various beer styles of Belgium origin. 23. What does saison mean? I think the essay format is appropriate. After all, we expect judges to be able to express what they mean quickly and concisely on the score sheets. I expect that anyway. Using open ended questions means the writer has to show what they think is important and they have the chance to justify it. As for the BJCP question: I gave a concise description of how the program was organized and how it worked (advancement, experience points, and so on) but lost points because I did not give numbers of experience points earned for this or that or numbers of experience points required for a given rank. That kind of information is something you should look up when needed. I'd rather have someone fill their heads with more beer style info. :^) >The test is not meant to be a cake walk is my >impression. After all we do represent the leading edge of Beer Literacy as John >Dale says. Aye, aye. > Glenn writes >Re: Saison > >I have to agree with Bob Guerin when he stated that this question is more >than a bit vague. > > >Re: The whole ball of wax. > >I do feel their are some vague questions in the list, and I sure plenty that >will cause enough controversy to keep this digest going for a while. I think the open ended questions are great. If you don't know the answer to a multiple choice or fill in the blank, you get zero credit. If you you know something about a style question (but not a great deal), you can at least write what you know. Re: Stingo and Lutece I don't know that style specific questions using (IMHO) obscure beers are useful to insuring qualified judges. They are useful (as was already pointed out) in making sure there are not many 100%'s. Best Regards, Norman (nfarrell at ppco.com) May your last beer be your best! ------------------------------ Date: 13 May 1994 07:19:14 -0800 From: "Rad Equipment" Subject: BJCP Questions Subject: BJCP Questions Time:7:15 AM Date:5/13/94 As I indicated in the forward to the list of questions, Pat Baker and Alberta Rager are the current decision makers regarding the contents of the exams. As neither of them has Net access, I will be happy to forward the collected comments which appear here on JudgeNet. I will not attempt to answer for them unless instructed to do so. RW... Russ Wigglesworth (INTERNET: Rad_Equipment at radmac1.ucsf.edu - CI$: 72300,61) UCSF Dept. of Radiology, San Francisco, CA (415) 476-3668 / Home (707) 769-0425 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 11:10:00 -0400 From: carlo.fusco at canrem.com (Carlo Fusco) Subject: GCHC ************************************************************************** The Canadian Amateur Brewers Association presents: The Tenth annual Great Canadian Homebrew Conference ************************************************************************** Where: The Royal Canadian Legion, Long Branch, Branch No. 101, 3850 Lakeshore Blvd. West, Etobicoke When: Friday June 3rd & Saturday June 4th, 1994 To celebrate the tenth anniversary of the Great Canadian Homebrew Conference, CABA along with membership input, will be showcasing the theme of "The Stylish Brewer". This year's theme will be evident throughout the entire weekend as international beer styles are discussed and sampled. Gourmet cuisine and vast amounts of brewing information will highlight the occasion. The event will feature presentations by Canada's three foremost beer writers: Stephen Beaumont, Ian Bowering, and Jamie MacKinnon. On Friday, the BJCP exam will be offered in the afternoon. The evening will be highlighted with an opportunity for everyone to sample 6 beer styles brewed by award winning CABA members. These beers will be pre-judged and each brewer of the individual styles will make a short presentation followed by an opportunity for the audience to ask any questions. On Saturday, there will be presentations made by informed speakers on Beer styles that span the spectrum from Britain to Belgium. At noon an amazing lunch will be presented by Chef Matthew Flett. To accompany this meal John Maxwell will select and present various brews that will accentuate the complex culinary flavours and give new meaning to the term "gourmet." The awards dinner will feature a presentation by author Ian Bowering. Ian will speak about the history of styles in Canada from Ales to Lagers to Prohibition. The results of the Great Canadian Homebrew competition will also be announced. Awards will be presented for 1st, 2nd and 3rd for each represented style, along with the prizes for Best of Show honours. To cap off this fantastic weekend of great beer and company, Matthew Flett will again tantalize our palates with a wonderful dinner. **************************************************************** For more information write or phone CABA at: CABA 19 Cheshire Dr. Islington, Ontario M9B 2N7 Phone/Fax: 416-237-9130 Compuserve: 71601,3357 InterNet: carlo.fusco at canrem.com ligas at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fidonet: Carlo Fusco at 1:229/15 - --- * Freddie 1.2.5 * email: carlo.fusco at canrem.com Sharon,Ontario,Canada ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 15:59:59 -0400 (EDT) From: rlenihan at world.std.com (Rich Lenihan) Subject: exam questions Jeff Frane writes... >I think Bob's complaint is valid but I disagree with his mix. I believe >the emphasis should be on beerstyles, off-flavors, and the brewing >process (in that order) with some questions on malts, hops & yeast as >they relate to the latter. I think questions about the BJCP program are >entirely superfluous. Frankly, the very last thing I would want to know >as an organizer was whether the judge understand how to become a Master >Judge. I would much rather know that he/she knew the difference between >DMS and diacetyl (oh, yes, I know a BJCP judge who *doesn't*!). I agree completely, especially with regard to the BJCP program question. Not only is this question self-referential, it is also irrelevant. I am unaware of any certification program where this type of question is asked. I would be very surprised if there were any where such knowledge would be worth 7% of the final score. Having said that, I thought the other nine questions I was asked when I took the exam in February were fair and mostly pertinent to being able to judge beer and give constructive criticism. They were mostly of the open-ended variety - the kind of questions that test what you know, not what you don't know. I think I would have been very discouraged (and a little pissed) if I had been asked to describe Stingo or Lutece. A better approach would be to ask "Describe the barleywine style (or Biere de Garde) and cite commercial examples". Those were the kind of questions I came across. Question: how many people remember being asked any of the questions on the recently posted list? I recognized 3 or 4. I did not see one question from the exam I took that I thought was excellent: (from memory) "Design a recipe for North German Pilsner (or was it Dortmund Export?) and explain your choice of ingredients and procedures." This is a good question. Save the trivia for Jeopardy. As for the number of questions, I think 10 is about the right amount for a 3 hour exam. More questions would not allow for as much depth to the answers and fewer questions might skew the results unfairly. A person might be very knowledgeable (or not) overall but might be weak (or strong) in one particular area. If I were to make any changes, it would be to give more weight to the tasting portion of the exam - maybe 50/50 instead of 70/30. As it stands now a person can bomb out on the tasting portion and still be certified. I did. ***soapbox off*** -Rich - -- Rich Lenihan rlenihan at world.std.com "It was like that when I found it." - Homer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 94 21:33:14 EDT From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: Why open-ended questions? The fellow (Bill Pfeiffer) who proctored my exam helped design the BJCP program (or so he says). He said that while they are interested in the demonstration of specific knowledge, they also want to gauge the depth of understanding and comprehension. The following comments are my own: The ONLY to get any indication of this (in my experience as a teacher) is to give open-ended questions. If you're really "master judge quality", you should be able to answer the questions briefly (a page or two) but completely, and in such a way as makes clear that you could have written quite a bit more on each. Now, as to questions on obscure beers such as Stingo and Lutece...... I note this disclaimer at the beginning of the list: Please note that this list includes questions that are no longer in use. =S ------------------------------ End of JudgeNet Digest ************************