From synchro!judge-request at uu6.psi.com Mon May 2 07:00:21 1994 Received: from uu6.psi.com by goodman.itn.med.umich.edu with SMTP id AA02517 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for spencer at hendrix.itn.med.umich.edu); Mon, 2 May 94 07:00:16 -0400 Received: from synchro.UUCP by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA27855 for ; Mon, 2 May 94 06:44:49 -0400 Received: by synchro.com (smail2.5) id AA29085; 2 May 94 05:22:31 EDT (Mon) Reply-To: judge at synchro.com (JudgeNet) Errors-To: judge-error at synchro.com Precedence: bulk Message-Id: <9405020522.AA29085 at synchro.com> From: judge-request at synchro.com (JudgeNet Administrator) To: judge-recipients at synchro.com (JudgeNet Recipients) Subject: JudgeNet Digest #749 (May 02, 1994) Date: 2 May 94 05:22:31 EDT (Mon) JudgeNet Digest #749 Mon 02 May 1994 THE BEER JUDGE DIGEST Chuck Cox , publisher Michael Hall , archive administrator digest submissions to judge at synchro.com administrative requests to judge-request at synchro.com send rank updates to the administrative address messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored FTP archive information in /pub/judge/README on cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov Published by SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery Contents: Who's Who (Mailing list Admin) Score Sheets (Bruce Feist) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 1 May 94 3:15:04 EDT From: listadm at synchro.com (Mailing list Admin) Subject: Who's Who ################################# ## ## ## JudgeNet ## ## the beer judge digest ## ## ## ## subscriber list ## ## ## ## (addresses prefaced with ## ## '#' are relayed) ## ## ## ################################# # ### Relay Sites # beer.judge at f615.n109.z1.fidonet.org (The Enlightened Board) # ### Federation of Amateur Wine and Beer Guilds (FAWBG) - NL # # Master Wine Judge # victor.reijs at surfnet.nl (Victor Reijs) # ### National Guild of Wine and Beer Judges (NGWBJ) - UK # # Examiner # g.a.cooper at gre.ac.uk (Geoff Cooper) # ### Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP) - USA # # Associate Director # stroud%gaia at polaroid.com (Steve Stroud) # # Committee Representative # rad_equipment at radmac1.ucsf.edu (Russ Wigglesworth) # # Master Judges # tayres at aol.com (Tom Ayers) chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox) hersh at x.org (Jay Hersh) # # National Judges # bickham at msc.cornell.edu (Scott Bickham) steved at longs.lance.colostate.edu (Steve Dempsey) norman.dickenson at sonoma.edu (Norman Dickenson) judge-relay at semantic.rsi.com (Bob Gorman) hall at buffa.enet.dec.com (Dan Hall) stevie at spss.com (Steve Hamburg) isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov (John Isenhour) afmccaul at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Tony Mccauley) glo at lanl.gov (Gordon Olson) darrylri at microsoft.com (Darryl Richman) # # Certified Judges # tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec) baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu (Kinney Baughman) sblack at utxvm.cc.utexas.edu (Steve Black) bronson at iexist.att.com (Edward Bronson) calen at vnet.ibm.com (John Calen) r.call at genie.geis.com (ray call) lcarter at claven.idbsu.edu (Loren Carter) cave at psc.org (Jim Cave) jami at partyline.com (Jami Chism) exe01679 at char.vnet.net (Dennis Davison) devine at cs.berkeley.edu (Bob Devine) brewnews at aol.com (Phil Doersam) nfarrell at charon.ppco.com (Norman Farrell) allen at darwin.sfbr.org (Allen Ford) gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane) rgarvin at btg.com (Rick Garvin) bguerin at orincon.com (Bob Guerin) mlh at cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (Michael Hall) charris at u.washington.edu (Craig Harris) doug at techbook.com (Doug Henderson) att!drutx!homer (Jim Homer) uunet.uu.net!att!drutx!homer (Jim Homer) alkinchen at aol.com (Al Kinchen) klein at physics.berkeley.edu (David Klein) korz at iepubj.att.com (Al Korzonas) jlandreman at atmel.com (John Landreman) rick at adc.com (Rick Larson) jel3 at cornell.edu (John Lenz) malodah at pacbell.com (Martin Lodahl) v-ccsl at microsoft.com (Scott Lord) larrylf at taligent.com (Larry Lynch-Freshner) daniel.f.mcconnell at med.umich.edu (Daniel McConnell) rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com (Rob Reed) reeves at sstcx1.lanl.gov (Geoff Reeves) resch at craycos.com (Dave Resch) ross at mscf.med.upenn.edu (Andy Ross) aaswr at asuvm.inre.asu.edu (Steve Russell) wrs at gozer.mv.com (Bill Slack) tas at allwise.att.com (Tom Strasser) cvirgilio at electriciti.com (Charles Virgilio) westemeier at delphi.com (Ed Westemeier) boskoduck at aol.com (Julian Zelazny) # # Recognized Judges # jack at wubios.wustl.edu (Jack Baty) bill.batzer at travel.com (Bill Batzer) bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley) jbunn at seanews.akita.com (John Bunn) busch at daacdev1.stx.com (Jim Busch) cannon_tom at hq.navsea.navy.mil (Tom Cannon) gcb at fc.hp.com (Glenn Colon-Bonet) lynnd at ihs.com (Lynn Danielson) jdecarlo at mitre.org (John DeCarlo) u52983 at uicvm.uic.edu (Roger Deschner) edwardp at indy.navy.mil (Paul Edwards) jimme at ahpcrc.umn.edu (Jim Ellingson) tee at cray.com (Tony Ernst) #Bruce.Feist at f615.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Bruce Feist) 71064.1725 at compuserve.com (Chris Folta) froeh at jpats.ecc.naa.rockwell.com (Michael Froehlich) gelly at persoft.com (Mitch Gelly) #Polly.Goldman at f615.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Polly Goldman) brew at devine.columbiasc.ncr.com (Jim Griggers) jdg at grex.ann-arbor.mi.us (Joshua Grosse) cush at msc.edu (Cush Hamlen) jhinken at aol.com (Jim Hinken) ech at ac.dal.ca (Ed Hitchcock) holton at donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Greg Holton) plfrog at aol.com (Peter LaFrance) trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith) ligas at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Michael Ligas) edl at tekig5.pen.tek.com (Ed Lingel) tedm at hp-pcd.cv.hp.com (Ted Manahan) pmiller at mmm.com (Phil Miller) scott at gordian.com (Scott Murphy) andnator at genesis.mcs.com (Andrew Patrick) piatz at cray.com (Steve Piatz) garyrich at qdeck.com (Gary Rich) ridgely at a1.cber.fda.gov (Bill Ridgely) simpson at rb.unisys.com (Mark Simpson) skeel at fcrfv2.ncifcrf.gov (Alison Skeel) mcksmi at delphi.com (McKee Smith) jimsnow at aol.com (Jim Snow) kurt.swanson at dna.lth.se (Kurt Swanson) bszymac at ulysses.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak) spencer.w.thomas at med.umich.edu (Spencer Thomas) gdtms at garlic.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Troxel) BEERWRITER at aol.com (Alan Wax) swh at ll.mit.edu (Sarah White) # # Apprentice Judges # anderso_a at hq.navsea.navy.mil (Andy Anderson) atkinson at unt.edu (Sam Atkinson) 3avhb at qucdn.queensu.ca (Ash Baker) 75250.1350 at compuserve.com (Karen Barela) dbeedle at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Dave Beedle) jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu (Jeremy Bergsman) jeffbean at aol.com (Jeff Biegert) michael at wupsych.wustl.edu (Mike Biondo) bliss at convex.com (Brian Bliss) boes at rsoc.rockwell.com (Gregory Boes) manimal200 at aol.com (Richard Brant) embreed at sfovmic1.vnet.ibm.com (Emily Breed) bli at psuvm.psu.edu (Jeff Brendle) eddie-brian at uiowa.edu (Eddie Brian) ray at hwr.arizona.edu (Ray Brice) rbrice at gas.uug.arizona.edu (Ray Brice) brittan at osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu (Jym Brittain) bronyaur at u.washington.edu (David Brockington) beb at pt.com (Bruce Buck) bbumbarg at acc.haverford.edu (Bruce Bumbarger) akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (Chris Campanelli) adc at mvuts.att.com (Alexander Carr) nchoksi at erenj.com (Neelan Choksi) zz11p9c at pentagon-emh6.army.mil (Peter Cooke) edcuz at aol.com (Ed Cousineau) mandos at mead.u.washington.edu (Marvin Crippen) dalton at mtl.mit.edu (Timothy Dalton) psd1 at midway.uchicago.edu (Pratik Dave) davidson at emba.uvm.edu (Darryl Davidson) tdenny at rigel.cs.pdx.edu (Tom Denny) aderr at bbn.com (Alan Derr) sderose at smirror.tezcat.com (Steve De_Rose) ddimitr at heartland.bradley.edu (Daniel Dimitroff) fjdobner at ihlpa.att.com (Frank Dobner) donham at super.enet.dec.com (Perry Donham) pjd at lanl.gov (Paul Dotson) jgdoyle at uci.edu (Jim Doyle) adugarm at worldbank.org (Delano Dugarm) 73627.3144 at compuserve.com (David Elliott) jeloff at technikon-1.trsa.ac.za (Johan Eloff) darren at ua1vm.ua.edu (Darren Evans-Young) p00739 at psilink.com (Charles Ewen) efarrell at ossi.com (Liz Farrell) mfetzer at ucsd.edu (Michael Fetzer) gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George Fix) john.fix at hardgood.com (John Fix) kfontaine at aol.com (Keith Fontaine) rich at beerich.demon.co.uk (Rich Fortnum) francisco at lan.ccit.arizona.edu (John Francisco) carlo.fusco at canrem.com (Carlo Fusco) 76702.764 at compuserve.com (Robin Garr) rgarvin at access.digex.net (Rick Garvin) p00164 at psilink.com (Perry Geib) jason at gibson.sde.hp.com (Jason Goldman) cgow at mailstorm.dot.gov (Charlie Gow) agrant at mta.ca (Andrew Grant) green at hpmtaa.lvld.hp.com (Bob Green) greengj0 at seraph1.sewanee.edu (Greg Greene) 22grzelecki at cua.edu (David Grzelecki) juglr at intgp1.att.com (John Gunser) sunilg at access.digex.com (Sunil Gupta) joseph-judge at joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Hall) ldjaxom at aol.com (Jim Hands) psvenh at aol.com (Peter Hanson) khardee at aud.alcatel.com (Kevin Hardee) lhart at caticsuf.csufresno.edu (Lowell Hart) killer1968 at aol.com (Sean Haynes) hilliard at zookeeper.zoo.uga.edu (Steve Hilliard) map01120 at niftyserve.or.jp (Kazuhira Hirahar) dhholscl at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (David Holsclaw) ferpetesak at aol.com (Peter Huebner) marhug at telecom.usu.edu (Marc Hugentobler) mri10 at mfg.amdahl.com (Mike Inglis) k-jones at ee.utah.edu (Kelly Jones) keinert at iastate.edu (Fritz Keinert) mike.keller at genie.geis.com (Mike Keller) kesicki at psc.psc.scarolina.edu (Ed Kesicki) jkinder at seraph1.sewanee.edu (Jackie Kinder) jal at techbook.com (Jim Larsen) mol at jyu.fi (Mika Latokartano) fjl at dpci.sannet.gov (frank leers) mjl at uncvx1.oit.unc.edu (Mike Lelivelt) lescosl at aa.wl.com (Len Lescosky) steve at pentagon-emh6.army.mil (Steve Lichtenberg) jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu (James Liddil) richard-lloyd at uokhsc.edu (Rick Lloyd) ktl at kittyhawk.aero.rmit.oz.au (Katie Lord) magdek at lonexa.admin.rl.af.mil (Kevin Madge) magee at helix.mgh.harvard.edu (John Magee) mare at vetsci.agpharm.arizona.edu (John Mare) ak200032 at sol.yorku.ca (Alan Marshall) rmattie at ccantares.wcupa.edu (renee mattie) klm at gozer.mv.com (Kevin McBride) r.mcglew3 at genie.geis.com (Ray McGlew) berniem at microsoft.com (Bernie McIlroy) emeeks at tx.ncsu.edu (Ed Meeks) Jimtamu at aol.com (Jim Melanson) tmitchel at bbn.com (Tom Mitchell) morgan at spectra.com (Mike Morgan) philipm978 at aol.com (Philip Murray) bmyers at uclink.berkeley.edu (Brian Myers) rcm at col.hp.com (Rick Myers) koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu (Kieran O'Connor) edo at marcam.com (Ed Oriordan) palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com (John Palmer) jimmyp at netcom.com (Jimmy Patrick) bpeck at cisco.com (Barrett Peck) lorenp at netcom.com (Loren Pigniolo) ron at admin.creol.ucf.edu (Ron Raike) raudins at elan2.coryphaeus.com (Glenn Raudins) u2102952 at csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au (Phil Reichert) patrick_rigney at blyth.com (Patrick Rigney) roy.rudebusch at travel.com (Roy Rudebusch) ken.sager at m.cc.utah.edu (Ken Sager) lennart at btjsys.btj.se (Lennart Sandberg) steves at netcom.com (Steve Saunders) ksavage at uceng.uc.edu (Kevin Savage) shoej at aol.com (David Schoemaker) scornaj0 at seraph1.sewanee.edu (Art Scornavacca) p00644 at psilink.com (Phillip Seitz) brew-l at healthcare.com (Dave Shaver) Geren_Smith at OakQM3.sps.mot.com (Geren Smith) snyderm at crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us (Mike Snyder) u18183%uicvm at uic.edu (Paul Sovcik) 70740.1107 at compuserve.com (James Spence) gak at wrs.com (Richard Stueven) sweenerb at msuvx1.memst.edu (Bob Sweeney) btalk at aol.com (Bob Talkiewicz) pthomford at macc.wisc.edu (Peter Thomford) dftraino at ingr.com (Douglas Trainor) rapmastert at aol.com (Henry Treftz) ericwade at class.org (Eric Wade) mark_wallace at crd.lotus.com (Mark Wallace) walls at e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Scott Walls) walter at lamar.colostate.edu (Brian Walter) weaver at spdc.ti.com (Tyler Weaver) rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com (Richard Webb) chuck.wettergreen at aquila.com (Chuck Wettergreen) david.whatley at natinst.com (David Whatley) winstead%brauerei.uucp at cs.tulane.edu (Teddy Winstead) wolfe at act-12-po.act.org (Edward Wolfe) yost at marcam.com (Ed Yost) zamick at yoko.rutgers.edu (Jonathan Zamick) zipfel at cs.wisc.edu (Gary Zipfel) ------------------------------ Date: 01 May 94 13:23:04 -0500 From: Bruce.Feist at f615.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Bruce Feist) Subject: Score Sheets While judging at Spirit of Free Beer II yesterday, I ran into a situation that I've encountered before, and which I think is avoidable. There is a strong tendency on the part of judges, particularly (I assume) those with lesser experience), to count off-flavors too heavily relative to stylistic adherence. It's counter-intuitive to have to give a good beer that's not quite true to style a lower rating than a badly infected beer that *is* on style, yet that is, as I understand it, what we are supposed to do. Yesterday this led to one beer at my table, a Pale Ale, being rated too highly by one person (in my opinion). The judge liked the beer, and gave it a respectable rating of around thirty -- because "only the hopping wasn't true to style". Meanwhile, stylistically correct beers with major flaws were being rated in the lower twenties. I expressed my opinions, but didn't push too hard; I'm just a recognized judge, and I've only judged twice. Besides, it wasn't going to affect the overall outcome significantly -- none of the beers in question were going to be prize-winners. Anyway, in my opinion the problem is accentuated by the scoring guide at the bottom of the scoring sheet. It presents scores as a single continuum: the sample (which is a bit old) that I have in front of me says: Excellent (40-50): Exceptionally exemplifies style, requires little or no attention; Very Good (30-39): Exemplifies style well, requires some attention; Good (25029: Exemplifies style satisfactorily, but requires attention; Drinkable (20-24): Does not exemplify style, requires attention; Problem (<20): Problematic, requires much attention. While a good summary, this ignores the fact that there are two distinct problems which a contest beer can have: stylistic and off-flavors. As an alternative, I propose a small matrix. There's some overlap in the ranges; this is intentional and probably unavoidable; this isn't an exact science, and we need to leave room for subjective judgement. Stylistic Adherence Perfect Slightly Off Unrelated O F None 35-50 25-34 20-24 f l Minor 30-34 20-30 18-22 f a Major 25-29 20-24 15-19 v o r s Comments? Bruce - --- timEd-A10b - --------- Fidonet: Bruce Feist 1:109/615 Internet: Bruce.Feist at f615.n109.z1.fidonet.org ------------------------------ End of JudgeNet Digest ************************