From synchro!judge-request at uu6.psi.com Thu Mar 10 06:59:59 1994 Received: from uu6.psi.com by goodman.itn.med.umich.edu with SMTP id AA10575 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for spencer at hendrix.itn.med.umich.edu); Thu, 10 Mar 94 06:59:54 -0500 Received: from synchro.UUCP by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA10923 for ; Thu, 10 Mar 94 06:30:13 -0500 Received: by synchro.com (smail2.5) id AA01114; 10 Mar 94 05:11:43 EST (Thu) Reply-To: judge at synchro.com (JudgeNet) Errors-To: judge-error at synchro.com Precedence: bulk Message-Id: <9403100511.AA01114 at synchro.com> From: judge-request at synchro.com (JudgeNet Administrator) To: judge-recipients at synchro.com (JudgeNet Recipients) Subject: JudgeNet Digest #708 (Mar 10, 1994) Date: 10 Mar 94 05:11:43 EST (Thu) JudgeNet Digest #708 Thu 10 Mar 1994 THE BEER JUDGE DIGEST Chuck Cox , digest administrator Michael Hall , archive administrator digest submissions to judge at synchro.com administrative requests to judge-request at synchro.com send rank updates to the administrative address messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored FTP archive information in /pub/judge/README on cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov Sponsored by SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery Contents: Jay's HWBTA comments (Rick Garvin) Re: JudgeNet Digest #707 (Mar 09, 1994) ("Phillip Seitz") Beer styles at the AHA (STROUD) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 09:02:38 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Garvin Subject: Jay's HWBTA comments > I was told the entire point of havingthe HWBTA entries forwarded through > shopkeepers was that they were supposed to serve as a first line filter to > keep really awful beers from entering. Thus in theory all the beers in the > HWBTA should be reasonable and the goal of the contest is not, unlike the AHA > contests, to provide feedback *and* pick winners, but just pick winners. > > So either this is hogwash and the restriction of having beers go through > shopkeepers just annoying barrier to entry, or the system is not working as > designed. You can talk to the HWBTA folks about hogwash, I was there to judge beers. I know that there are a few qualified palates out there that run homebrew shops, but how many do you think there really are? We difinately did provide feedback AND pick winners. We had very patient judges on all of the trouble categories. Ralph Colaizi from Pittsburg on Herb and George Griffith from Haymarket, VA on Specialty. I was pleased with the consideration they gave each beer. However, the major theme was "less is more." Those beers that needed an extra sheet to list all of the herbs and spices did the poorest. New rule of thumb: If more than three unusual ingredients are used, the beer will do poorly. Cheers, Rick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Mar 94 09:40:30 -0400 From: "Phillip Seitz" Subject: Re: JudgeNet Digest #707 (Mar 09, 1994) Jay Hersh wrote: >I was told the entire point of having the HWBTA entries forwarded through >shopkeepers was that they were supposed to serve as a first line filter to >keep really awful beers from entering. Thus in theory all the beers in the >HWBTA should be reasonable and the goal of the contest is not, unlike the AHA >contests, to provide feedback *and* pick winners, but just pick winners. > >So either this is hogwash and the restriction of having beers go through >shopkeepers just annoying barrier to entry, or the system is not working as >designed. I have no idea if this was the intention or not, but I can't see a homebrew dealer telling a potential entrant that his or her beer stinks, and isn't good enough for the contest. This seems like a one-way ticket to a lost customer, and I doubt any of these businesses are flush enough to afford the loss. I suspect the real reason the entries have to go through a shopkeeper is to bring people into the store. (Which is fair enough.) In my experience local folks depend on people far away to set and enforce standards, thereby taking this onerous chore out of the hands (or control) of the people who have front-line exposure to the problems. Rick Garvin asked: >>4) What are we going to do with all the horrible beers we get entered in >>Herb and specialty? And Steve Dempsy responded: >Use them for judge training, as examples of imbalance, infection, or >whatever. Or play the beer drinking equivalent of Russian Roulette -- >open bottles until you find a gem, or until your tongue is numb from >abuse. Or just dump them and reuse/recycle the bottles. Um, are we supposed to fill out the judging sheets before or after? (I'm new to judging and haven't mastered these nuances yet :-) ------------------------------ Date: 09 Mar 1994 15:46:17 -0500 (EST) From: STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com Subject: Beer styles at the AHA Back in mid-February, at the tail end of the 'what's a good example of an alt and why are so few judges qualified to judge them' discussion, "Karen Barela/AHAPresident <75250.1350 at CompuServe.COM>" said: >I think the discussions about having a specific beer style reviewed in depth >during the AHA National Homebrew Conference is a great idea. It's too late for >the AHA to organize one for Denver, but the AHA would be happy to organize and >plan one for the 1995 conference. >I'm open to ideas regarding which style (is Alt the choice?) and which brands >you want to have represented. Roger Deschner has pointed out some real hurdles >we'd need to jump in order to get some real representation. I also think its >a great idea to have hombrew on hand for comparison as well. Karen, I think that this is a good idea and hope that the AHA will pursue something along these lines. AS for alts, however, I think that a reality check is in order here. In order for the AHA to pull this off and have it do the judges any good, I believe that there are two requirements: 1) there must be a fairly good variety of the style available in the US, at least 3 or 4 brands, preferably more 2) a person acknowleged to be well-versed in the style needs to help lead the discussion For alts, I don't believe that we really have either. Don't get me wrong, it'd be _great_ if the AHA could get some kegs of Dusseldorf alt flown over! (and the Zum Urige brewmaster to give a talk, of course :-). But unless you are confident that you can do this you should aim your sights a bit lower, at least for the first one. Getting together and drinking St. Stan's, DAB Dark, and Grolsch Amber while several of us wave our hands isn't going to help introduce anybody to the style. Something like Eric Warner leading a tasting /discussion on Bavarian Weizens, for example, would have been of great interest in Denver. I hear that Baltimore is rumored to be the site of the '95 conference. Theo DeGroen and Pils or Dopplebocks perhaps? I think that it is OK if a style is broadly available in the US; the discussion can still be educational. Even better if the style is available but not widely. A session on tripels and dubbels comes to mind - though I'm not sure who would lead _that_ discussion. This leads back into the idea put forth that judges could/should be tested and certified on style knowledge. I sat firmly on my hands during that whole discussion, since I believe that trying to administer such a testing program would be a bureaucratic nightmare with limited benefit. However, the idea that the AHA would run a style-training session at each conference has merit and should be used as a teaching tool. I encourage the AHA to go forward with it. Steve Stroud ------------------------------ End of JudgeNet Digest ************************